Sooted King in a HORSE game

[elitegimp]

Live 7-handed $0.50 / $1.00 HORSE home game.

Reads:
* UTG read doesn't matter, he folded before any action got to me
* MP is a friend of mine that I've been playing with for 4 years, pretty much ABC TAG game.
* Villain (CO) is a self-professed NL Hold 'em tournament player, this is the second hand of the second orbit of Hold 'em and Villain did not get out of line the first time around (but at this point I had lost my Hold 'Em reads because I was trying to remember which stud game we were playing).
* Button was the type of player you and I love having in the game
* SB was fairly tight, seemed like a solid player
* BB was also tight, he had never played any of the ORSE games before but wasn't making up for it by playing every Hold 'em hand

The important action is correct (Villain had position, it was heads-up after the flop, etc) but I may be off by a bet or two because I don't remember all the pre-flop action.

I labeled all my actions so you can better berate my play.

Hero is dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG+1

Preflop:

UTG folds, Hero calls (1), MP folds, Villain raises from the CO, Button cold-calls, two folds (SB, BB), Hero calls (2)

Flop (7.5 SB): K 8 7 rainbow (one heart)

Hero checks (3), Villain bets, button folds, Hero calls (4)

Turn (4.75 BB): (K 8 7) 4, completing the rainbow

Hero checks (5), Villain bets, Hero calls (6)

River (6.75 BB): (K 8 7 4) 3

Hero checks (7), Villain bets, Hero calls (8)

My thought process:
(1) I'm a sucker for sooted hands
(2) I'm closing the action getting 6.5:1, this is never a fold
(3) I'll let the Villain c-bet and see what the button does... If he calls or folds I'm definitely ahead of him.
(4) I'm ahead of a ton of hands that raise preflop and bet this board
(5 & 6) Ooh, a gutshot draw! I want to see a river, and I want to see it cheap.
(7) Well, I missed my gutshot and didn't pair my weak kicker... definitely not betting here
(8) Ed Miller once told me I fold too much

I guess I'm curious to hear if any of the decisions I made were correct... assuming you would have folded at some point, definitely let me know but please also critique the post-fold action (:

[KitCloudkicker]

lol at preflop...K6s is a crap hand. at silly home games though i may do the same -- was this a silly home game? the last thing you want to do is play like a nit w/your buds. dont limp this though if you're playing for serious money and/or grinding at the casino.

as played i like flop and turn. i b/f river to keep QQ/JJ from checking behind.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
My thought process:
(1) I'm a sucker.
(2) I'm closing the action getting 6.5:1, I'm suffering the effects of compounding errors.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP x2

As for the rest of the hand, since you're stuck in it, it's fine. Your thinking is a bit off, or at least needs to be expanded:

[ QUOTE ]
(4) I'm ahead of a ton of hands that raise preflop and bet this board

[/ QUOTE ]

If you feel this is true, why not check-raise?

[ QUOTE ]
(5 & 6) Ooh, a gutshot draw! I want to see a river, and I want to see it cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought you thought you had the best hand. Why do you think you're drawing?

[ QUOTE ]
(7) Well, I missed my gutshot and didn't pair my weak kicker... definitely not betting here

[/ QUOTE ]

Why aren't you betting? "I missed my draw that I didn't think I needed two streets ago" isn't a good reason.

[JamesBJames]

This is an amazingly easy fold preflop. K6s isn't anywhere near good enough to limp in UTG+1 in a 7 handed game.

[Fantam]

Very entertaining post ! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

And wonderful response from Aaron !

I thought your preflop call was loose.

But I am betting that flop !

[allintime333]

dont be a sucker for sooted hands it will cost you in the long term on the flop I would lead out

[elitegimp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My thought process:
(1) I'm a sucker.
(2) I'm closing the action getting 6.5:1, I'm suffering the effects of compounding errors.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP x2

As for the rest of the hand, since you're stuck in it, it's fine. Your thinking is a bit off, or at least needs to be expanded:


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll see what I can do...

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
(4) I'm ahead of a ton of hands that raise preflop and bet this board

[/ QUOTE ]

If you feel this is true, why not check-raise?


[/ QUOTE ]

Three situations:

1) Villain folds - okay, I was way ahead and I probably missed out on 1 BB, maybe 2 if she fires all three rounds.

2) Villain raises - okay, I'm way behind and spent 2 small bets to find out instead 2.5 BB.

3) Villain calls - ??? I'm probably ahead, and have to lead the turn. I would have no idea how to respond to a raise on the turn (probably fold) and would be just as confused on the river if Villain calls.

So I guess I was thinking this was a WA/WB situation... and if the opponent is willing to lead the whole way I don't mind calling the entire time. I know I'm way too passive at the poker table, but I don't see this as a good spot to be more aggressive.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
(5 & 6) Ooh, a gutshot draw! I want to see a river, and I want to see it cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought you thought you had the best hand. Why do you think you're drawing?



[/ QUOTE ]

I thought there was a good chance I had the best hand, but it wasn't definite. I didn't know if her turn bet was yet another continuation bet or if I should be worried about being behind at this point. But my thinking was skewed by the thought "okay, I might be behind, but I now have 4 more outs."

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
(7) Well, I missed my gutshot and didn't pair my weak kicker... definitely not betting here

[/ QUOTE ]

Why aren't you betting? "I missed my draw that I didn't think I needed two streets ago" isn't a good reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the hands that

(a) I'm ahead of, and
(b) will call a river bet

will all have to bet this river. None of the hands I'm behind can fold, and a portion of them will raise. So my options are

(1) Opponent has air: If I bet, I save the embarrassment of showing down K6s but don't get any extra bets vs checking

(2) Opponent has QQ-99: If I bet, I get called. If I check, Villain will likely bet. Either way, I go to showdown and get one extra bet

(3) Opponent has a hand like AK - KJ: If I bet, I get called. If I check, Villain will likely bet. Either way, I go to showdown and lose one bet.

(4) Opponent has a monster (or a hand like AK / KQ and a good read): If I bet, I get raised and either (a) lose one bet without a showdown, or (b) call like the chump I am and lose two bets. If I check, Villain bets and I lose one bet.

So I don't see any situation where betting the river is better than check-calling.

[elitegimp]

[ QUOTE ]
lol at preflop...K6s is a crap hand. at silly home games though i may do the same -- was this a silly home game? the last thing you want to do is play like a nit w/your buds.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was pretty silly - a couple people had never played before and a couple players were much better than me. It was actually organized by a 2+2er (UTG this hand) who told me I misplayed every street. While I'm willing to admit that preflop was a disaster, I think the flop and river play themselves so I (at most) misplayed just 2 of the 4 streets. (:

[ QUOTE ]
i b/f river to keep QQ/JJ from checking behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you think the Villain would bet QQ / JJ here? As weak-tight as I am, getting check-called all the way down here I would bet QQ-99 as well as A8 in this situation (not that I would be in this situation with A8...)

[elitegimp]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an amazingly easy fold preflop. K6s isn't anywhere near good enough to limp in UTG+1 in a 7 handed game.

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasn't 7-handed, though. It was 5-handed with two others playing any 2 cards (i.e. an extra 2 SB in every flop). Add to it that neither of those two were in blind, and it was pretty much guaranteed to be 4 or 5 way if it gets around unraised (had been happening a lot, but maybe because we had been playing O/8 and 3 different stud games [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

[MrWookie]

Even against donks, and even 5 handed, this is an easy fold preflop. You're too far out of position to play crap.