Tough decisions with kickers

[Oberonn]

If you read the OP's posts, the skill set you describe is exactly what he has trouble with.

Avoiding most tough situations is a viable way of dealing with them until you have more skills. You can work on them a little at a time.

Rather than call me a nit why don't you enlighten the OP with insight to gain the skill set you describe?

For what it is worth, I may be a douche but I am never a nit.

[huber117]

i know that avoiding these situations is a good idea in general, but how about the times the bad guy doesnt have what his bet represents? wouldnt that be a surprise, a poker player using deception to get the guy whos ahead to fold? i think most people replying are looking too much into A10 as a hand instead of the general problem. how about putting it this way- two guys see a flop of 7-7-K rainbow, one holds Q-7, another A-7. i guess im asking too much, trying to figure out how to avoid bad luck. i dont know any "skill" that can be learned that can avoid these situations. i bet all of you reading this would be happy to call, dont kid yourself.

[TheBlueMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
i know that avoiding these situations is a good idea in general, but how about the times the bad guy doesnt have what his bet represents? wouldnt that be a surprise, a poker player using deception to get the guy whos ahead to fold? i think most people replying are looking too much into A10 as a hand instead of the general problem. how about putting it this way- two guys see a flop of 7-7-K rainbow, one holds Q-7, another A-7. i guess im asking too much, trying to figure out how to avoid bad luck. i dont know any "skill" that can be learned that can avoid these situations. i bet all of you reading this would be happy to call, dont kid yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]
What exactly are you asking here? How the person with q-7 can fold? With a good read. You can't pose questions like this. It's like saying: if two people are standing on opposite sides of a door and fire guns towards each other, can they avoid being hit. What if one has a .45 and the other has a 9mm?
[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Fei]

huber117,

To start with, you got yourself into this 'kicker' connundrum because of bad play during pre-flop and yet you question the BB's aggressive play. No matter of your style, you simply had to fold that hand. If you're playing tight, what the hell are you raising 3xBB with A, 10? If you are playing aggressive, why are you worrying about losing 3xBB?

As for the BB's overbet, if he did have a strong hand, then he deserved the pot. If he was bluffing, he will make the same mistake of overbetting and in due time, he will get busted.

[Shandrax]

[ QUOTE ]
heres a major problem i bet most people have, but dont know how to deal with. say your on the button holding A-10o preflop, raise 3xBB, 3 callers. flop is A-9-4 rainbow. BB bets big, MPs fold, BBs bet is large enough to force you all in. what do you do?

the way i figure , with three callers preflop, one must have at least A-x. This situation comes up many times im sure you all know, my point is, what would a real pro do? im not asking for that "it depends" crap. my point is, theres no defense against kicker problems that i know of. straights, flushes, etc are easy to spot, but in poker many situations come up where two players face off, and its the kicker that decides it, but you cant really put someone on the EXACT card- similar to a four-flush turn with 3 ppl seeing it, hero holds queen high. anybody have any advice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, let's look at it. What could the BB have that makes him just call on the flop and then bet out against 3 other people out of position.

A-K? He would have raised pre-flop.
A-Q? Hmmm...maybe, but a raise is also quite likely.
A-J? Could have called with that one.
A-9? He could have called.
A-8? Maybe, but it's starting to get unlikely.
A-7 to A-2? Probably not.
9-9? Call or raise pre-flop definitely yes, but he would have checked the flop.
T-9s? Preflop call yes, but bet it out on the flop? Some do, but bet it that big? Playing against an all-in caller (you) with 2nd pair? Not sure.
9-8s? Dito.
9-7s? Dito.

So what can you beat? I'd say in this situation you got a pretty easy laydown. If the BB is a tricky player who likes to push people off hands with his big stack, that might change the decision though.

[rjohson]

my advice is first of all A10 is not a raising hand even if your on the button my advice would be to fold.
if im on the button im not raising with anyting less than aq if its off suit

[flowerizzle]

"if im on the button im not raising with anyting less than aq if its off suit"

dunno what u play but depending on the situation i sometimes raise any2 on the button...

[rjohson]

it all boils down to A 10 is not a raising hand and as others stated it is an easy fold, sure any body can raise with 7 2 off suit but if you have some one raising and betting on top of that then you can assume they have a good they may have ak aq or aj if they are betting ace rag they are losers in the long run any elementary poker book will tell you to fold A10 after a raise and a bet

[CORed]

Well, with AT on the button and two limpers, I think it's pretty close whether to raise or limp. If I raise, I'm hoping to take a small pot by folding everybody preflop, or get headsup and take it with a continuation bet on the flop. If I don't have a fairly high probablility of picking up the pot by the flop. limping is better.

To OP: You didn't say how big the bet you're facing is, or how big your stack is, but in NL, calling an overbet for your whole stack, unless it's pretty small, with top pair, even top pair, top kicker, is usually a mistake.

If you can't deal with an "It depends." answer, poker is not the game for you. Learn to count cards and play blackjack. It's high variance and not nearly as probitable as playing good poker, but there's never any doubt about what the right answer to "How should I play this hand?". In poker, exept for some obvious folds, the answer is nearly always "It depends.".

[JOHNY CA$H]

Wow . Im raising with AT on the button. But what situation is this where any raise commints yuo all in? Surely this is not for cash games. And in a tourney, if your pot committed on the flop, just push preflop. I'm having a hard time understanding this scenario.