Example of a big government fraud: The War on Drugs.

[bkholdem]

What's up folks, taxpayers, citizens? Heard about this government operation? Of course you have. But how much time have you actually spent critically thinking about it?

Some of my new friends over at Law Enforcement Against Prohibition have been doing some thinking, as well as talking about it for a little while now. And what they say may come as a surprise to you because they do not spout the typical party line rhetoric, bu nevertheless they are experts on the subject. They have a very well put together 12 minute video which is intresting to watch at their site. It's 1/2 way down the front page on the right side. Just click in the actual video window. It might take a few mintues to load and you might have to click the little play button once it does (so just do it in a second window while taking care of some other businsess/leasure on your computer rather than becoming impatient and giving up becuse this video is worth watching! www.leap.cc

Some topics I would like to start a discussion on are:

Prohibition and Black Markets: How the overwhelming majority of drug related homicides are directly caused by the prohibtion of hard drugs and has nothing to do with the drug use and/or sale.

Economics, consumer demand, and how the government machine ignores this factor in it's war- and the devistating effects this has on us as a people

Experiments with legalization of hard drugs in non US countries and their results

The actual effects of drugs like heroin on the human body, and how the criminalization of the drug, not the drug itself, brings the bulk of the 'problems' for both the user and the populace.

Police resources and the futility of the drug war.

Lawyers, courts, cops, prisons, and politicians: the big scheme to create and sustain their business operations by current policy practicies (i.e. the drug war)


Anyway, I want to give peple a chance to watch that video and share their comments/concerns and see what develops. I will add more in the way of information/opinion if this thread does not get going from what I have provided so far.

[natedogg]

This is probably the one subject this forum is most in agreement about, across all types of posters. The leftists, socialist, anarchocapitalists, libertarians, democrats and and even many partyline republicans all do not support the drug war.

natedogg

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
This is probably the one subject this forum is most in agreement about, across all types of posters. The leftists, socialist, anarchocapitalists, libertarians, democrats and and even many partyline republicans all do not support the drug war.

natedogg

[/ QUOTE ]

I challenge any of those who do to discuss why it is good and/or helpful.

I say all drugs should be legal. Where are those who disagree? Lets discuss it.

[xorbie]

Legal and controlled like alcohol or legal like milk?

And what about a drug which turns someone psychotic and is highly likely to result in them harming someone else?

[Iplayboard]

[ QUOTE ]
This is probably the one subject this forum is most in agreement about, across all types of posters. The leftists, socialist, anarchocapitalists, libertarians, democrats and and even many partyline republicans all do not support the drug war.

natedogg

[/ QUOTE ]

Too bad the views represented by this forum do not at all mirror the views held by the general population.

Most of the polls I've seen show that around 1/3 of Americans support legalizing marijuana, although the numbers are much higher than in past decades.

Only about 10-15% want to legalize all drugs.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
Legal and controlled like alcohol or legal like milk?

And what about a drug which turns someone psychotic and is highly likely to result in them harming someone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

States should make their own decisions.

[pvn]

[ QUOTE ]
Legal and controlled like alcohol or legal like milk?

[/ QUOTE ]

Milk is quite controlled.

[ QUOTE ]
And what about a drug which turns someone psychotic and is highly likely to result in them harming someone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like anyone who took it would very likely face some liability.

[ConstantineX]

Even if said person is liable, what makes you think you can extract money from him? I'd think someone like that is very likely to be poor, and not worth the $10 million+ I value individual human life at.

Moreover, what about the myriad externalties (gasp, yes, I said it) of possible drug usage? If a meth user procures a license and start legally selling to meth heads in a neighborhood, housing prices are very likely to be depressed (assume in this case there was no preexisting HoA). Are members of the neighborhood just SoL? What about the cycles of addiction of certain drugs that can literally cause neighborhood blight? I feel many ACists to easily gloss over this point. You aren't going to convince many people with practical fears by simply stating "the market will solve it". At least provide a general outline.

Anyway, I think a sensible approach would to be immediately legalize marijuana and cocaine, while entrusting companies and municipalities to legislate the "harder" drugs. Pre-emptive search and seizure should be discontinued as a policy, and the RICO laws abolished. Perhaps zoning fines on such operations would be a better solution - if you're engaged in illegal industrial activity in a residential area, you're going to lose your home. That sort of thing.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
Legal and controlled like alcohol or legal like milk?

And what about a drug which turns someone psychotic and is highly likely to result in them harming someone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Legal and controlled like alcohol.

I don't know of a drug that that turns people psychotic (well cocaine and methamphetamine will after a long enough period of use without sleep-but the sleep depravation has a lot to do with that) but use neither of those drugs are 'highly likely' to result in them harming someone else in any convenstional sense of the definition of harms someone else. I guess you could be talking about PCP. I am not interested in taking a postion of that being legal at this time. I am talking about the hard drugs that are in high demand. Heroin and Cocaine.

I am also not interested in debating a purist who wants no controls, they already understand prohibition is insane.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if said person is liable, what makes you think you can extract money from him? I'd think someone like that is very likely to be poor, and not worth the $10 million+ I value individual human life at.

Moreover, what about the myriad externalties (gasp, yes, I said it) of possible drug usage? If a meth user procures a license and start legally selling to meth heads in a neighborhood, housing prices are very likely to be depressed (assume in this case there was no preexisting HoA). Are members of the neighborhood just SoL? What about the cycles of addiction of certain drugs that can literally cause neighborhood blight? I feel many ACists to easily gloss over this point. You aren't going to convince many people with practical fears by simply stating "the market will solve it". At least provide a general outline.

Anyway, I think a sensible approach would to be immediately legalize marijuana and cocaine, while entrusting companies and municipalities to legislate the "harder" drugs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Overall I generally like what you are saying. I think that legalizaation of cocaine will lead to more immediate problematic situations than legalizing heroin will.