JT flops top 2 with draw-heavy board

lairnair · #1 02-10-2006, 02:06 PM

Party Poker NL Hold-em $50 (10 handed)

Villain1 is 8/0/.6 after 86 hands
Villain2 is 47/0/.2 after 38 hands

Hero has w/ J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the button.

Pre-flop: 2 folds, 4 limpers, Hero limps, SB (Villain1) completes, BB checks.

Flop ($3.50): 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Villain1 leads out for $5, 2 folds, Villain2 calls $5, 2 folds, Hero raises to $20, Villain1 calls, Villain2 calls.

Turn ($63.50): 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Villain1 pushes all-in $39.60, Villain2 calls all-in $26.75, Hero calls $39.60.

1) How's my flop play? Villain1 is extremely tight/passive, so what to make of his overbet to lead the flop? I put Villain2 on a draw, which is why I raise big, and then Villain1's call makes me think he's also on a draw.

2) Turn is a blank, but Villain1 pushes. If I'm heads up, I probably fold, but Villain2 calls the all-in. I'm now getting better than 3 to 1 on my money, with a 5 to 1 chance to boat up (I think my math is right??) and a chance that I'm still ahead w/ my top 2 (or am i crazy that i might still be ahead here?)

Kyriefurro · #2 02-10-2006, 02:20 PM

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How's my flop play? Villain1 is extremely tight/passive,

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You're toast. When a tight/passive suddenly starts betting, and betting large (in relationship to pot size) he's got a monster. Fold right then and there.

ChooseJif · #3 02-10-2006, 02:21 PM

With two pair you only have four outs to make a full house. So, it's 10.5 to 1 against.

I think your behind. A tight passive limps in from the blind and pushes all in on this board. I think he's got a straight.

lairnair · #4 02-10-2006, 02:24 PM

Good point. What about the possibility that he's trying to protect his AJ from all the draws out there?

lairnair · #5 02-10-2006, 02:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With two pair you only have four outs to make a full house. So, it's 10.5 to 1 against.

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Doh! Thanks for setting me straight. Sorry for the donkish post everyone.

Kyriefurro · #6 02-10-2006, 02:27 PM

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Good point. What about the possibility that he's trying to protect his AJ from all the draws out there?

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Slim to none. Passive players don't understand the concept of hand protection.

ChooseJif · #7 02-10-2006, 02:30 PM

One of them definitely has the straight. I'd fold. I think an AJ would have pushed harder on the flop to protect his hand. Tight passive doesn't push on the river with AJ.

BalugaWhale · #8 02-10-2006, 02:33 PM

I had almost the exact same hand the other day with 89s. I flopped top two pair on a coordinated board. A guy bets, I raise, third guy pushes, first guy calls... it's time to vacate.

(The typical tight/passive players they were, one had 99 and the other flopped the straight [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

bghbgh2 · #9 02-10-2006, 02:39 PM

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Slim to none. Passive players don't understand the concept of hand protection.

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Thanks for the post. I didn't know that was a characteristic of passive players. I just thought it meant that they don't bet aggressively enough when they have better hands, or only wait for monsters for aggro bets.

lairnair · #10 02-10-2006, 02:44 PM

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Passive players don't understand the concept of hand protection.

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But would a passive player overbet the pot when he flops a straight?