25NL: AKo deep in 4-bet pot

Shattered · #1 10-02-2007, 07:23 PM

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $24.75
Hero (BB): $58.85
UTG: $53.15
CO: $5.00
BTN: $23.75

Preflop: Hero is dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG raises to $1.00, CO raises to $2.00, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5.00, UTG raises to $11.00, CO calls all-in for $3.00, Hero calls $6.00

Flop: ($27.10) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 All-In)
Hero checks, UTG bets $6.25, Hero calls $6.25

Turn: ($39.60) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 All-In)
Hero bets $18.00, UTG raises all-in to $35.90, Hero calls $17.90

River: ($111.40) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players - 2 All-In)

Pot Size: $111.40 ($2 Rake)

UTG was a less than a solid player who was willing to pay off with second pair or TPBK, and I had been 3-betting a lot recently. He called almost 100% of my 3-bets and this is the first time he 4-bet me, but if I felt that if he had QQ or KK he was probably going to pay me off at least 1 bet.
After a flop that pretty came I was basically working on extraction, as if he had me beat I was paying him off.
Any thoughts are much appreciated.

AZplaya · #2 10-02-2007, 07:35 PM

pre flop is pretty gross imo...push or fold after he makes it $11, I prefer pushing. as played flop c/r ai is standard.

Shattered · #3 10-02-2007, 07:46 PM

Could you explain why pushing for another 160BB over what is essentially a minraise 4-bet is better than calling, or why folding is right getting 4-1 pot odds and a read that he'll pay off a chunk more with second pair? I don't see him 4-betting that small with AQ (especially considering he'd flatcalled at least three or four 3-bets before this), much less calling all in for two stacks.

ICMoney · #4 10-02-2007, 08:08 PM

I think you get truer information pf if you raise to $7.5.

After that action, the only hands I can see him having are AK, AA or maybe A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (45% equity).

After you bet turn I guess you have to call.

prodonkey · #5 10-02-2007, 08:10 PM

I'm I'm reading all this right.. basically you're putting him on QQ+ and hoping to extract 1 bet out of him if u flop an ace or king. That's a very bad way to play AK.

You're either a coinflip, behind a bit, or crushed vs his 3 possible hands, or chopping with another AK preflop. On the flop he's not playing K's like that, or Q's.. so he either has AA or AK.
I'm still trying to find your question in all of this though, you say you're working on extraction, and u get him all in and you're paying him off if you're beat. Mission accomplished.

And his preflop reraise isn't a min reraise... you raised $3 to $5 which is a pretty bad size.. and he made it $6 more to $11. I usually make it 3-4x's their raise, so $6-$8 would be a better size for your raise.

corsakh · #6 10-02-2007, 08:13 PM

The correct play preflop is to fold. If you want to get frisky, you need to raise. $5 is not a raise, its a joke.

Shattered · #7 10-02-2007, 09:02 PM

Thanks for the input everyone. Prodonkey, I'm just trying to fix my game and I was wondering if I played this hand poorly, which I obviously did (folding > shoving > my choice).
I'm still confused as to why shoving all in preflop is preferable to calling, and would really appreciate it if someone could clarify that.

prodonkey · #8 10-02-2007, 09:05 PM

shoving is greater than calling because if he does have QQ/KK and u spike your A u win his stack.. and not just the money in the pot preflop. I don't like shoving AK preflop most times though, especially 200bb deep. If I got 5 bet out of position I think I'd just ditch it.

Trogdor! · #9 10-02-2007, 09:35 PM

we shove AK because we have a greater chance of winning the pot then calling and missing a flop. It doesnt work very well if hes range is AA/KK