Player posts blind before previous pot is scooped

[zepthiir]

$10 pub amateur tourney. No professional dealers, only the players on a rotating deal and most people are there for something to do while they drink rather than being serious poker players.

Situation is I just knocked someone out with my pocket A's and started to scoop a fairly large pot, as is usually the case in these tournaments the dealer hadnt bothered to collect the pot after each round so the chips were all still wherever they landed when people threw them in to bet.

I reached over to the other end of the table to collect the chips from there and the guy who was due to be the big blind put his hand over a couple and said "no thats my big blind"

Being that I had just won a big pot and it was only a big blind anyway I kind of just let it go and mumbled something about not putting blinds in while a pot was being scooped to avoid that but thinking back I am wondering if it would have been worth taking it a bit further.

What would be the ruling in this case if the floor was called? Does the player forfeit his chips for mixing them with the previous pot, simply get a warning and keep his chips, or something else entirely?

[psandman]

he didn't mix them with the pot. He pot them in front of him, but since the dealer didn't bring in the bet confusion was caused. I understand the players are rotating the deal, but still the dealer should bring in the bets.

You have no grievance unless you don't believe that the player really put it out as a big blind.

[zepthiir]

Well given the fact that the pot wasnt brought in there was no clear distinction between the pot and his blinds.

I understand it is the dealer's fault but trying to explain to the people at the table that they should do this when they are dealer just falls on deaf ears.

I have no idea if he put the blind in or not, I certainly didnt see him put the chips in and have no idea if anyone else did which is why I am wondering what the correct thing to do here is.

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
Being that I had just won a big pot and it was only a big blind anyway I kind of just let it go and mumbled something about not putting blinds in while a pot was being scooped to avoid that but thinking back I am wondering if it would have been worth taking it a bit further.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are wondering if you should have tried to angle-shoot this guy out of a BB, in a $10 pub tourney? You sound like a really quality human being.

I've seen this happen plenty of times in a casino, where an early post gets scooped into the pot. What usually happens is that someone says "whoops - my blind was in there" and the then dealer pulls it out and we all move onto the next hand. If the guy winning the pot put up a stink about it, then the dealer would reconstruct the hand (or go the tapes) and figure out what happened. The early poster would probably get told to be more careful, but wouldn't be penalized. If he did it constantly, he might be asked to leave.

[lmcclean]

I think any floor person would be hard pressed to make a ruling in this case. People who are trained in such things are used to things being done properly, ie. the dealer is expected to bring in and then push the pot. So situations such as this aren't really to be expected
That being said:
As the floor, I would encourage the players involved to make a gentleman's agreement, so as to not hold up the game by having to call for to check the tape. If their was no tape, or the tape was inconclusive, I would have to err on the assumption that somewhere along the line proper procedure was maintained (player didn't post his blind in the pot) and award the entire pot as it stands to the player who won the previous hand.
Most poker floor persons make their final ruling in the assumption that something was done right along the way, and under the "if it costs you money this time, you won't do it again" premise. History has show us that if you punish someone for doing something stupid once they are unlikely to repeat it.

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea if he put the blind in or not, I certainly didnt see him put the chips in and have no idea if anyone else did which is why I am wondering what the correct thing to do here is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I was too harsh in my post (I thought you knew it was his blind). If you really had no way to tell, it shouldn't be hard to figure it out based on how much money should have been in front of each person. For instance, if early poster guy wasn't sitting anywhere near anyone else who was involved in the hand, chances are real good he was telling the truth.

[lmcclean]

That's tough too. If the dealer wasn't doing anything useful he likely had no idea what the pot value should be, or who made what bets.

[zepthiir]

[ QUOTE ]
So you are wondering if you should have tried to angle-shoot this guy out of a BB, in a $10 pub tourney? You sound like a really quality human being.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, I didnt kick up a stink exactly because it wasnt enough to really worry about. But at the same time I was just wondering what the correct thing to do here would be.

I think in this case it was unintentional, so I just mentioned to the guy that he should wait in future until the pot was scooped before posting blinds. But what if it WAS intentional, then you have a situation you need to take care of before it becomes more than just a big blind.

[pfapfap]

How is this difficult to determine? Count down the pot. If it's one BB over, then you took in his BB.

You, as the winner of the hand, also have a responsibility to know what you're playing. Pay attention to the action.

Tho' most would say, "oh, sorry," and just throw it back out there.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
But what if it WAS intentional, then you have a situation you need to take care of before it becomes more than just a big blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

welll, duhhh. Even the regular stealing back of your BB is enough to cut down on. Give the BB back, keep an eye on the player in the future for a while, check periodically.