Calling rivers / CC rivers?

Silverback · #1 12-06-2006, 12:38 PM

Comments please, more interested in river play

Hand 1 no reads.
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO raises, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Hand 2 No reads
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Hand 3
Sb overaggressive Button , 27 hands 14/4

What should i do on river?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (15.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB raises, Hero folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

thanks

bobhalford · #2 12-06-2006, 12:46 PM

Hand 1, I fold the river. He's got at least a pair.

Hand 2, 3bet the turn. You are missing value here.

Hand 3 - I could see myself bet/capping the turn here if SB is overaggro (fix your read I don't get it). As played, I might even bet/fold the river, though I'd probably check and fold.

latefordinner · #3 12-06-2006, 12:48 PM

Hand 1, looks fine

Hand 2, 3 bet turn. as played fold river, BB is donkbetting, UTG is raising and you aren't closing the action and a flush or str8 are both possibilities.

Hand 3: 3 bet flop, you are probably still ahead of SB and Button looks like he's drawing. Use SB's aggroness to punish the other player with TP here. then lead turn.

as played I usually fold turn, the check-3bet is weird but probably a monster line here unless SB is wayy out of line. once again we aren't closing action and if button caps we are certainly drawing to our boat outs. definitely fold river.

good hands. lots of people prob disagree with me.

milesdyson · #4 12-06-2006, 12:55 PM

i'd fold all of them and play the other streets the same usually. dont 3-bet the turn in hand 2.

Jiggymike · #5 12-06-2006, 01:51 PM

Hand 1 - I would fold, I can't imagine any hand a limper has that you beat on this river. Pot is kinda big but I doubt he's bluffing and he could even be value betting a 9 at this point...

Hand 2 - This one is a little hairy. I think the pot is just big enough that you should call in case both players suck and you probably won't win often but you could win it just enough for +EV. Some people will take weird lines with subpar hands on scary boards.

Hand 3 - I wouldn't have donked turn. As played I fold to 3-bet, you aren't getting odds to spike your boat.

TomBrooks · #6 12-06-2006, 02:11 PM

Hand 1. Fold the river. Bet the turn, you could have won the hand right there, you had 12 outs if called or raised, and you would c/f the river anyway if you didn't improve.

Hand 2. Fold that. The combination of BB bluffing into 2 players who showed that kind of strength and UTG bluff raising is 100:1 shot, not an 8:1 shot. And you might have gotten three bet too-of course, then you could definately folded.

Hand 3. Good fold.

jba · #7 12-06-2006, 02:12 PM

I fold all rivers in these hands. the only thing I'd probably do differently in any of these is 3bet the flop in hand 3.

jba · #8 12-06-2006, 02:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
dont 3-bet the turn in hand 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow for real, lot's of people saying that in this thread.

bbbushu · #9 12-06-2006, 02:29 PM

:grunch:

Hand 1
i think your preflop three-bet should instill enough fear in the button to check behind with any hand that you beat so i would check/fold the river.

Hand 2
there aren't a lot of hands that you're ahead of that play the way UTG played his or her hand. maybe a slow-played K8 or something but i don't think they would raise this river with that hand. BB has been calling all the way and now comes out betting when the flush draw comes in, which looks pretty suspicious. despite this, UTG is still comfortable raising. i'd call and wish i was confident enough in my hand reading to fold.

Hand 3
weird stuff going on, here. the only hand i see SB check/raising with on this flop is K8 or maybe A8 (depending on how aggressive they are - i'm assuming the aces strong enough to check/raise with just one pair here woulda three-bet preflop). that being said, the turn check/three-bet makes NO sense for K8. i don't fear QJ from the small blind (should i???) but it seems like a likely holding for BT until s/he flat-calls the river.

very confusing to me. i would let BT decide what happens on the turn after SB checks again (very sneaky) and start trying to control the size of the pot once we make a hand good enough to see showdown on the vast majority of rivers.

SB's third check/raise is almost funny in it's craziness (although s/he is certainly collecting bets if they've got the goods) and you clearly can't call on the end, despite the pot's massive size. i think even if the SB just calls BT's bet, you should still probably fold because i can't think of many hands you beat that BT would STILL bet here after being check/raised on the flop and turn.

curious what others have to say on that last one,
bbbushu

bobhalford · #10 12-06-2006, 05:28 PM

Yea, I take that back about the turn 3bet in hand 2. That raise looks scarier than I thought, since we are playing our hand like AK/KQ or better. River is a pretty easy fold. JT's the nuts.