In the case against religious theism, what is so damning...

[Splendour]

Quote: Its things like this that makes other theists beg you to stop making Christians look bad.

No one has said I'm making them look bad Kurto. You are the only one that has said that and from what you say I gather you're not a theist. I am speaking frankly about things. Most of the things I say I either give a link to or can be looked up in the bible. No Christians have pm'd me to not discuss the bible. So I wish you would stop distorting the truth.

[No_Foolin'?]

Um, thanks, but I'm not asking for religious advice.

Please don't do what the dear preacher has already done and avoid the details of the discussion at hand.

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
Sceintists (sic) themselves can't decide about (sic) evolution and intelligent design (Darwin vs. Newton)

[/ QUOTE ]

YES, this is perfect. The only way to calibrate modern scientific consensus is to compare the personal beliefs of men who died, respectively, 125 and 380 years ago.

THAT IS THE ONLY WAY ANYONE WHO SUGGESTS OTHERWISE IS CLINICALLY INSANE.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say read the bible for yourself. Don't let that guy or science be stumbling blocks for you. Probably want a study guide type bible that helps you understand things better. It would have footnotes and things to help you understand ancient history and traditions. The bible is pretty amazing. Its slow going at first but the more you read it, the more the interrelationships make sense. Its a unique book.

[/ QUOTE ]

You will find that most of the non-believers on this board have read the Bible. Your suggestion that people read the Bible is typically naive of you. Most of us here have read the Bible. I believe most of the people here were raised in religious families. We were raised with the Bible and have come to the conclusion that it is false.

[ QUOTE ]
The bible is pretty amazing.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a matter of opinion. To me its interesting because of its role in history. I actually don't think its that interesting a read in itself. Much of the Bible is completely unreadable. Quite a bit of it is laughable if you consider that there are people nowadays who are believe in strict literal interpretations.

If you remove all the history of the religion, its use in governing, wars, etc. If you just had the Bible as a book to be read and judged... very few would read it. And any publisher would get an editor in there to clean it up.

Though I can't admit to having read it, I've been told the Koran is a more 'beautiful' piece of work. And for 'fun reading', the Greek Gods are far more interesting.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote: Its things like this that makes other theists beg you to stop making Christians look bad.

No one has said I'm making them look bad Kurto. You are the only one that has said that and from what you say I gather you're not a theist.

[/ QUOTE ]

Simply not true. I remember having a good laugh at the time. I'm fairly certain it was NotReady who is a regular contributing theist on the board. Though it could have been Bunny or the theist (whose name escapes me but who has the picture of an Asian woman) who asked that you stop posting because you were making the Christians look bad. Believe me, I wish I bookmarked it because it was funny but I did not.

[ QUOTE ]
I am speaking frankly about things. Most of the things I say I either give a link to or can be looked up in the bible. No Christians have pm'd me to not discuss the bible. So I wish you would stop distorting the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]
(1) You post links but can never discuss them critically
(2) what the Bible says rarely has any relevence to the discussion. Because the Bible is not considered a reliable source of information for much of anything beyond "the beliefs of christians." When discussing the likelihood of God, science, etc., you quoting Biblical verses just looks ridiculous.

[ QUOTE ]
No Christians have pm'd me to not discuss the bible

[/ QUOTE ]

Never said they pm'd you. It was posted in a forum thread. That's why I know about it.

And, for the record, I am not a theist. But there are different calibers of theists. Some who have decent rhetorical skills. Often the threads with them, when they participate, are interesting and sometimes intellectually challenging. They do not embarrass atheists. I would suggest there is a reason several posters have questioned if you are a troll or a gimmick account.

[No_Foolin'?]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote: Its things like this that makes other theists beg you to stop making Christians look bad.

No one has said I'm making them look bad Kurto.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes, you are making them look bad. You are making very broad assumptions about my conversation with the preacher, based on very, very little data.

Every time I hear a Christian discuss things in the same simplistic and general manner you are here, I solidify my view more and more that the only people who believe the Bible is true are those who at some basic level lack the ability to fairly and accurately examine data and evidence. Where you should be considering, for example, 10 pieces of evidence before drawing even a qualified conclusion, you take 2 or 3 and draw a conclusion you believe is the unquestionable truth. Your standards of rigor are ridiculously low.

This doesn't mean that I believe you have to have ten thousand pieces of evidence before one can believe in God. It only means that as a matter of course you, Splendour, don't demand a whole lot of evidence to be persuaded of things. And this doesn't give non-Christians a strong sense of comfort about the possibility of the truth of the Bible.

[Splendour]

The problem you might be having No_Foolin' is a problem that a Christian doesn't have. We don't base our faith on Genesis. We base it on the Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. That's where you are most probably getting hung up. If you can't make it past Genesis you might have a problem. That's why I would start with the New Testament first then read the Old Testament then read the New Testament again. Jesus is central to everything we believe.

[MiloMinderbinder]

[ QUOTE ]
The existence of people who believe in aliens is easily explained without invoking aliens too. Does this ruin the case for the existence of aliens?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but it causes us to be skeptical of any alien existence claims and base our opinions on evidence rather than mere tales which have been passed down.

[No_Foolin'?]

I don't know what thread you're in. Please re-read my original point (i.e. dealing directly with the point made by the OP), which focused on the preacher failing to address directly and substantively my questioning of his assertion that 50% of all geologists, paleontologists, archaologists, etc. believe the earth to be 7000 years old.

All you have said is this: (a) he was probably trying to protect me and (b) besides, why should I seek answers about science from a preacher?

I responded to your (a) and (b), but you haven't followed up to my response, and instead have gone on some tangent about how great the Bible is.

Please engage the original arguments. Why are you not?

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem you might be having No_Foolin' is a problem that a Christian doesn't have. We don't base our faith on Genesis. We base it on the Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. That's where you are most probably getting hung up. If you can't make it past Genesis you might have a problem. That's why I would start with the New Testament first then read the Old Testament then read the New Testament again. Jesus is central to everything we believe.

[/ QUOTE ]

So many problems...

(1) Though I can't pull scripture out of thin air, I'm fairly certain that Jesus didn't negate the Old Testament.
(2) once again, Splenda, you speak for people you have no authority to speak for. There are many different groups of Christians with very different beliefs. There are many Christians who believe in the entirety of the Bible. Some believe the stories are literal... some think they are metaphorical. So, you are flat out wrong saying that he gets hung up on Genesis and other Christians don't have that problem since quite a few Christians think everything in Genesesis and the rest of the old testament is literal fact.