no 3 betting KK against tightie.... $25 FTP - Page 2

n4rf · #11 10-11-2007, 04:48 PM

I've done what you did in this hand once before, and it worked wonders. I was in position except this time I flat called with Aces and was hoping for a BROADWAY-rag-rag flop. Luckily that came and I ended up getting a lot of value from my aces, granted I wasn't going to go nuts with it. I enjoy switching up my play with the high pockets every once in a while, that is, only if I know I'm be HU against one opponent.

thac · #12 10-11-2007, 04:50 PM

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If you ever smooth-call preflop with KK or AA, this is exactly why you're doing it. You get all-in on a relatively safe board and you've got far-and-away the best of it when the money goes in. Well done. This should not be your default play, but when the circumstances are just right this kind of action can be devestatingly effective.

(P.S.: Based on the hand history I'm assuming you were on the button, not in the big blind.)

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I agree, well played kurto.

Milky · #13 10-11-2007, 05:43 PM

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I do not think I agree with your PF thoughts...VS a player this tight I want to be 3 betting every time with strong pairs and calling with speculative hands..This player is sooooo tight the odds are greater that he has a hand big enough to get them AI PF...IMO a player this tight will put them AI PF with AK..But when you call you lose value when he does not improve..This player will shut down all his pairs when any over card falls..

I do like smooth calling big pairs vs aggro villain that will auto C-bet any flop..The more aggro the villain the more likely he is opening light and not be able to continue when "we" 3 bet...

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This is what I was thinking as well, but it looks like the majority disagrees? I feel like this is the worst opponent to just flat call w/KK (or even AA). Can someone (pokey?) explain the situation a bit more?

Pokey · #14 10-12-2007, 04:24 PM

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I feel like this is the worst opponent to just flat call w/KK (or even AA). Can someone (pokey?) explain the situation a bit more?

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Don't get me wrong -- three-betting preflop is usually best with hands like KK, especially when you're out of position. However, this is the type of opponent I'd most like to smooth-call against.

He's tight and aggressive. That tells me:

1. He's probably going to fold the hand preflop if we three-bet. That means we're usually going to win just the $1.

2. He's probably going to c-bet the flop if we smooth-call preflop and check to him on the flop. That means we're usually going to win the $1 from preflop plus another $1.50 or so from the c-bet. That's much better.

3. It's unlikely we're going to be afraid of the flop. Unless an ace falls (which only happens about 1/3rd of the time) we'll have at least an overpair. If we get lucky the flop will come all low cards and villain will be willing to "go to war" with his JJ or TT overpair unimproved. The stackability of JJ or TT preflop versus this kind of opponent is pretty small, but if he flops an overpair we're getting his whole wad.

If villain has AA we're losing our stack. If villain has QQ we're probably getting good cash out of him either way. We need to be thinking about marginal hands like JJ and TT and figuring out how we can get the most value out of them postflop. The downside is that we become bluffable -- if the flop comes AQ9 and villain c-bets big we're probably folding, and villain scores a coup with his JJ. That's unfortunate but unlikely, and I'm willing to run the risk of that to (at least) double my win on the hand by letting it go to the flop without a three-bet. Gamboool!