88 vs. a PF cap

synbad13 · #1 07-19-2007, 01:15 AM

So my main question is how often do you look someone up in this spot (with the knowledge they may have AK).

Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, 2 folds, MP folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

So Assuming Villain bets, how often do you call down (or do anything but fold). He would definately be firing with un-paired cards if it includes a spade (which is basically just AK).

Assuming you call the turn, and a non ace/king comes on the river and villain bets again, how often do you call? (also a non-spade).

What if you call the turn and villain checks the river? Easy check behind?

jstill · #2 07-19-2007, 01:37 AM

AK with a spade freecards a lot I think u can fold pretty safely, ud have to peel another street obviously atleast with a spade tho. Plus this turn card when u dont have a spade hurts ur equity worse against his likely range.

I think even on a blank turn this is a fold he doesnt have 77 or double barrell AK here enough in my opinion to call a turn bet.

NinaWilliams · #3 07-19-2007, 04:27 AM

I just fold the flop. Our hand sucks.

Oink · #4 07-19-2007, 05:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I just fold the flop. Our hand sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

naah. Peel the flop and see what he does on the turn. 16 AK combos against 18 AA-JJ combos.

I also disagree with jstill. AK with spades will be betting a lot to fold out low pp's.

Without a read I call down any non A or K. If I know he checks behind A high on rivers I c/f river.

detruncate · #5 07-19-2007, 02:43 PM

I can't fold the flop. People do strange things when the chips start flying pf, and we probably have a call even against a reasonable range. Sometimes we rescue a bad situation by spiking a set or runnering a straight and drag a nice pot. Sometimes he checks behind the turn and we get to start thinking about whether the river should be a value bet. Sometimes we make it to the river and get a free showdown. I fold to a river bet without a strong "nutjob" read with the Q and J on board, though.

I think it all adds up to a c/c, c/c, c/f... or third c/c if Villain seems like a spewtard unless the A or K or 4th spade falls.

Gurravasa · #6 07-19-2007, 03:54 PM

c/c turn and also c/c a non A ot T river. I think your hand is the best often enough to do this when the pot is this large...

bobhalford · #7 07-19-2007, 04:02 PM

I can fold the flop here. Other times I call and fold the turn. He will usually check behind without a pair (fearing a check raise from hero) and take the free card (another reason for folding the flop), folding the river without improvement. So when our hand is best, we make like zero bets after the flop. Versus his range I think a flop call is ok, but when the turn comes 3 to the flush I think I check and fold.

I can see calling the turn because villain may now still not have a pair, but have turned a flush draw, giving him reason to bet. Still I fold figuring that if I'm ahead, I'll get beat on the river often by either a spade or a card higher than 9. I suppose you can then check and fold any river since you can't possibly have the best hand then (unless an 8 falls).

Entity · #8 07-19-2007, 05:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just fold the flop. Our hand sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

naah. Peel the flop and see what he does on the turn. 16 AK combos against 18 AA-JJ combos.

I also disagree with jstill. AK with spades will be betting a lot to fold out low pp's.

Without a read I call down any non A or K. If I know he checks behind A high on rivers I c/f river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against AK you only have 60% equity and against AA-JJ you have 16%. RIO are big here, and your opponent usually is going to fire twice before they give up at least. Weighted you've got 30% equity in this spot. I'd just give up now.

Rob

jstill · #9 07-19-2007, 06:32 PM

how about a blank turn entity, is that another peel?

MartynasD · #10 07-19-2007, 08:15 PM

just fold.
unless u have some special reads on your oponent,lets say he to agresiv,call in this case,but normaly fold