2008 National Champions (NCAAF)

[Terrabon98]

Sorry, that comment came off as harsh, but I am basing that off of what I remember from that year, which was NU squeaking out some wins and it being Osborne's last year, so there was an emotional factor for some voters. Also, NU having to basically cheat and not get called on it to stay undefeated (kick ball in the endzone?)

Anyway, in regards to the Carr comment, I don't disagree that maybe he SHOULD have been axed. Just look at the comments I have already made in this thread. But realistically, at Michigan, it's very hard to get fired as a head coach, especially when you consistently send your teams to the Rose Bowl and win Big Ten titles. Obviously Carr has had a rough last couple years, but his first 5-6 years as a head coach, he had an unreal record again top 5 and top 10 opponents, and even throughout his career has sent Michigan to the Rose Bowl and a piece of the Big Ten title in about half the years he's coached...I wouldn't say that he's still holding on because of his '97 win.


Also, I disagree that NU was even the better team that year, and I think that Michigan's defense could very well have shut down the option attack and produced very efficiently on offense. And Griese was not a scrambler, but he definitely was fairly mobile, as witnessed by his ability to get out of the pocket and make passes and run the ball upfield...but I am just arguing for the sake of arguing here, as there's obviously no way either one of us can prove that one team is better than the other

[iggymcfly]

Why would Carr get fired? His overall record's ridiculously good, and the Wolverines have gone to the Rose Bowl three of the last four years. OMG, he's got a bad record against Ohio State and USC. Well, guess what. So does every other coach in the country. Seriously, what programs are in better shape than Michigan right now? I'll give you Ohio State, USC, Oklahoma, and Texas (borderline) but that's about it.

[Terrabon98]

As for the bad record against OSU and USC, it's possible it's short-term variance, but to say that Michigan fans should be happy because they are getting crushed recently by those teams and beating everyone else is absurd. They have as much talent as anyone in the country every year (6 all-americans this year?), so to constantly lose to those teams is obv. not acceptable.

The main difference between Michigan losing to USC and OSU and other teams losing the same amount to those teams is that Michigan almost always has teams with equivalent or more talent that should be able to match up fairly well.

I hope you can see the difference

[EvanJC]

if anybody has any team other than sc as #1 they're wrong.

1)sc
2)michigan

after that i have no idea

[MyTurn2Raise]

The argument against SC is their schedule

[BigSoonerFan]

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Also, I would bet the farm on Auburn +4 against L'ville. Defense wins football games.

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After the way they finished? Wow.

Beat 4-8 Ole Miss by 6.
Beat Ark St by 27.
Get destroyed by Georgia 15-37.
Beat 6-7 Bama by 7.
Beat Nebraska by 3.

I'm not really impressed.

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Auburn is 8-1 vs the top ten the last three years with the one loss coming @ Baton Rouge in OT in a game where Vaughn missed 5 FGs. Vaughn missed 4 this year by comparison (20/24.) You can throw your style points out the window when talking about Auburn.

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How did those style points look against Georgia?

[Austiger]

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Also, I would bet the farm on Auburn +4 against L'ville. Defense wins football games.

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After the way they finished? Wow.

Beat 4-8 Ole Miss by 6.
Beat Ark St by 27.
Get destroyed by Georgia 15-37.
Beat 6-7 Bama by 7.
Beat Nebraska by 3.

I'm not really impressed.

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Auburn is 8-1 vs the top ten the last three years with the one loss coming @ Baton Rouge in OT in a game where Vaughn missed 5 FGs. Vaughn missed 4 this year by comparison (20/24.) You can throw your style points out the window when talking about Auburn.

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How did those style points look against Georgia?

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11-2. What's your point? That we didn't go undefeated? Good one.

Auburn has struggled in games vs. teams we're supposed to beat. We would be pumped to play a UL team. We would hold our own against any team in the country except OSU.

[teamdonkey]

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Terrabon - i'll take a coach who can consistantly put a great team on the field but isn't a good playcaller over the opposite any day. Noone is more responsible for the quality of their football team than a college head coach. The fact that Michigan can beat 75% of their opponents by just relying on having better players means Carr is doing a hell of a job.

People used to say Tom Osborne couldn't get it done with his antiquated offense and predictable playcalling to. Don't be so quick to criticize someone who has kept your program at an elite level for so long.

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Osborne was an offensive genius.

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In the end, that's really my point though, isn't it? Osborne still won national championships, and nobody can say his teams consistently underperformed. The same is not true for Carr. In fact, Carr was able to run what many would call an "antiquated" style for the first few years of his tenure very effectively. Unfortunately, teams have adjusted and it no longer works. His lack of adaptation and a steady stream of big losses is what concerns me.

For those exact reasons, it's pretty silly to compare Osborne to Carr at this point in Carr's career.

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Osborne's career looked eirily similar in the early 90's - great start followed by a period of "mediocrity" where he only wins 9 or 10 games a year. People in Nebraska sounded a lot like these Michigan fans do now. Then he goes 60-3 in his last 5 years and wins at least a share of 3 titles.

I guess my point is this: if you fire Carr, please dear god don't hire Frank Solich to replace him.

[srjunkacct]

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Terrabon - i'll take a coach who can consistantly put a great team on the field but isn't a good playcaller over the opposite any day. Noone is more responsible for the quality of their football team than a college head coach. The fact that Michigan can beat 75% of their opponents by just relying on having better players means Carr is doing a hell of a job.

People used to say Tom Osborne couldn't get it done with his antiquated offense and predictable playcalling to. Don't be so quick to criticize someone who has kept your program at an elite level for so long.

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Osborne was an offensive genius.

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In the end, that's really my point though, isn't it? Osborne still won national championships, and nobody can say his teams consistently underperformed. The same is not true for Carr. In fact, Carr was able to run what many would call an "antiquated" style for the first few years of his tenure very effectively. Unfortunately, teams have adjusted and it no longer works. His lack of adaptation and a steady stream of big losses is what concerns me.

For those exact reasons, it's pretty silly to compare Osborne to Carr.

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During the 1998 Rose Bowl, Lloyd Carr completely stunned Washington State by having Brian Griese (who all season had been heralded as a quarterback who "manages the game well", "doesn't make mistakes", etc.) throw deep and often, and pulled off a trick play on a key third down with Charles Woodson in the fourth quarter. I really don't understand why Carr hasn't come close to preparing a game plan with this kind of creativity since.

[dawade]

As a Michigan fan, I think it's safe to say that everyone knows that Lloyd hasn't done the best of jobs in the bigger games the past few seasons.

That being said, I love and respect everything that Lloyd does and the way he goes about handling his business. Paterno and Carr are the absolute FACE of what is right in college football.

When was the last time you heard about some recruiting allegations in football at either of those schools? Both men do their jobs with the upmost respect for their school and the game itself. And that, to me, is why I'm proud to be a Wolverine.