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#11
06-18-2006, 11:37 AM
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Re: Would this be evidence for God?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If there was some fact that was found common in all world religions would this be evidence for God? Obviously it wouldnt be proof as it could have arisen through some fundamental human trait, just evidence of some sort. Also, I mean clearly recognisable facts, not poetically worded extracts which can be interpreted as similar. [/ QUOTE ] I think the answer is that it depends. If the common belief is held in place by a connection with the truth of the belief then it would be impressive. If its held in place by coercion or indoctrination then it would be meaningless. Its unlikely precisley because religous beliefs are held independently of the truth of the belief so there's nothing to stop the beliefs being high, wide and fancy free. chez [/ QUOTE ] I was thinking about some universal prophesy for which the truth was not (yet) testable. (See my eclipse example above). Would it's mere presence in all religions be any evidence to you as a non-believer? [/ QUOTE ] If the prophecies were specific as to the event and the time, so that the future event couldnt be retrofitted into some vague prediction (National ID cards? gimme a break), and the prophecies arose independently it would give me reason to examine the evidence. The independence requirement would be quite difficult to satisfy though. At least one of the major religions making the prediction would have to have been totally isolated from the rest of the world at the time of the prophecy, and I dont know if thats ever been the case since language was developed. 
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#12
06-18-2006, 11:41 AM
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Re: Would this be evidence for God?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If there was some fact that was found common in all world religions would this be evidence for God? Obviously it wouldnt be proof as it could have arisen through some fundamental human trait, just evidence of some sort. Also, I mean clearly recognisable facts, not poetically worded extracts which can be interpreted as similar. [/ QUOTE ] I think the answer is that it depends. If the common belief is held in place by a connection with the truth of the belief then it would be impressive. If its held in place by coercion or indoctrination then it would be meaningless. Its unlikely precisley because religous beliefs are held independently of the truth of the belief so there's nothing to stop the beliefs being high, wide and fancy free. chez [/ QUOTE ] I was thinking about some universal prophesy for which the truth was not (yet) testable. (See my eclipse example above). Would it's mere presence in all religions be any evidence to you as a non-believer? [/ QUOTE ] It would be very strong evidence of something/someone who knows more than we do, bit like if Halley had predicted the comet to some primative tribe or Tintin predicting an eclipse to the followers of the sun. Can't see why it would be any reason to believe in a god. chez
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#13
06-18-2006, 11:47 AM
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Re: Would this be evidence for God?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If there was some fact that was found common in all world religions would this be evidence for God? Obviously it wouldnt be proof as it could have arisen through some fundamental human trait, just evidence of some sort. Also, I mean clearly recognisable facts, not poetically worded extracts which can be interpreted as similar. [/ QUOTE ] I think the answer is that it depends. If the common belief is held in place by a connection with the truth of the belief then it would be impressive. If its held in place by coercion or indoctrination then it would be meaningless. Its unlikely precisley because religous beliefs are held independently of the truth of the belief so there's nothing to stop the beliefs being high, wide and fancy free. chez [/ QUOTE ] I was thinking about some universal prophesy for which the truth was not (yet) testable. (See my eclipse example above). Would it's mere presence in all religions be any evidence to you as a non-believer? [/ QUOTE ] It would be very strong evidence of something/someone who knows more than we do, bit like if Halley had predicted the comet to some primative tribe or Tintin predicting an eclipse to the followers of the sun. Can't see why it would be any reason to believe in a god. chez [/ QUOTE ] Because if all religions were to independently provide identical statements in some areas it would imply they were getting their info from something genuine? That "something" is therefore a credible source of information and is also telling them there is a god. (I'm obviously not leading anywhere with this - pretty much none of my antecedent is true [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img], I'm just curious if evidence of this kind would count for anything).
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#14
06-18-2006, 11:54 AM
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Re: Would this be evidence for God?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If there was some fact that was found common in all world religions would this be evidence for God? Obviously it wouldnt be proof as it could have arisen through some fundamental human trait, just evidence of some sort. Also, I mean clearly recognisable facts, not poetically worded extracts which can be interpreted as similar. [/ QUOTE ] I think the answer is that it depends. If the common belief is held in place by a connection with the truth of the belief then it would be impressive. If its held in place by coercion or indoctrination then it would be meaningless. Its unlikely precisley because religous beliefs are held independently of the truth of the belief so there's nothing to stop the beliefs being high, wide and fancy free. chez [/ QUOTE ] I was thinking about some universal prophesy for which the truth was not (yet) testable. (See my eclipse example above). Would it's mere presence in all religions be any evidence to you as a non-believer? [/ QUOTE ] It would be very strong evidence of something/someone who knows more than we do, bit like if Halley had predicted the comet to some primative tribe or Tintin predicting an eclipse to the followers of the sun. Can't see why it would be any reason to believe in a god. chez [/ QUOTE ] Because if all religions were to independently provide identical statements in some areas it would imply they were getting their info from something genuine? That "something" is therefore a credible source of information and is also telling them there is a god. (I'm obviously not leading anywhere with this - pretty much none of my antecedent is true [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img], I'm just curious if evidence of this kind would count for anything). [/ QUOTE ] Yes it counts as evidence of a credible source. No reason to believe they speak the truth about being god. If Halley had wanted dominion over the the primative tribe he predicts the comet and claims to be god. Then he demands worship, tributes etc chez
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#15
06-18-2006, 03:17 PM
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Re: Would this be evidence for God?
[ QUOTE ]
I agree that this is explainable in several ways. Less so with the eclipse example I gave above though. Would you count this as evidence (before it had occurred)? [/ QUOTE ] Religious people keep assigning any unexplainable events to God, or advertising them as proof of it's existence. This is clearly a logical fallacy.
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#17
06-19-2006, 12:36 AM
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Re: Would this be evidence for God?
Some people clearly need to read "Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" where it is clearly shown why proof of the existence of God is proof of God's non-existence.
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#18
06-19-2006, 01:20 AM
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Re: Would this be evidence for God?
[ QUOTE ]
If there was some fact that was found common in all world religions would this be evidence for God? Obviously it wouldnt be proof as it could have arisen through some fundamental human trait, just evidence of some sort. Also, I mean clearly recognisable facts, not poetically worded extracts which can be interpreted as similar. [/ QUOTE ] You answer your question in your second paragraph. If some phenomenon were explainable by an appeal to human nature surely that explanation should be preferred to one that requires the existence of a new sort of entity. MKR
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#19
06-19-2006, 01:37 AM
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Re: Would this be evidence for God?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If there was some fact that was found common in all world religions would this be evidence for God? Obviously it wouldnt be proof as it could have arisen through some fundamental human trait, just evidence of some sort. Also, I mean clearly recognisable facts, not poetically worded extracts which can be interpreted as similar. [/ QUOTE ] You answer your question in your second paragraph. If some phenomenon were explainable by an appeal to human nature surely that explanation should be preferred to one that requires the existence of a new sort of entity. MKR [/ QUOTE ] It wouldnt be an appeal to a known aspect of human nature though. The materialistic explanation would be no less of a mystery than the "God told me" explanation. Again, I'm talking about some concrete fact common to all religions independently. It's a common objection to the theistic position that the difference amongst religions is evidence against any of them being the real thing. This made me think about it from the other direction (as a purely hypothetical possibility).
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#20
06-19-2006, 01:40 AM
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Re: Would this be evidence for God?
Hiya bunny,
Interesting question, but would it not more sensible for god to mahifest openly, clearly and unambiguously, or seed the knowledge of him into beings. Then it would make sense to accept or reject his dictates. By him not doing so, one must question whether or not our choice of religion may not be, indeed, a seduction and deceit by satan himself. Which it would be more likely to be, from appearances, if I accepted the god/satan possibility.
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