3/6 KQs

[James.]

so beachy,

everytime a LAG raises you he has top pair? remember, he is a LAG and he will try to bully you. did it ever cross your mind that you MAY have the best hand here and the Ace pairing the board is not such a bad thing? i think CO is usually drawing and LAG's range is so wide we have equity against his holdings so yes, i bet the turn.

[Beachman42]

No argument with the LAG. As I stated earlier, its the CO that causes me problems. He isn't a LAG per the OP. If you bet, LAG raises with air, and CO 3 bets, you fold, right? Well, I check, LAG raises with air, and CO raises, I FOLD. You are spewing by not giving CO any credit for COLD CALLING 2 pf. What range do you put CO on?

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
No argument with the LAG. As I stated earlier, its the CO that causes me problems. He isn't a LAG per the OP. If you bet, LAG raises with air, and CO 3 bets, you fold, right? Well, I check, LAG raises with air, and CO raises, I FOLD. You are spewing by not giving CO any credit for COLD CALLING 2 pf. What range do you put CO on?

[/ QUOTE ]

what about the majority of the time when you bet, LAG raises, you call and check/call the river and beat LAG's pocket sevens? or CO calls the turn and folds the river b/c he had a draw? don't just point out the worst case scenario here. outside of pocket pairs, the most common coldcalling hands are JTs, QJs, KJs, KQs, maybe down to 910s and as high as AQs(given his read of passivity POSTFLOP i think most big aces will 3 bet pf, i could be wrong). what i am getting at though, is that a lot of worse hands will call(or in LAG's case raise) on that board because they are drawing. and i WANT LAG to raise to get CO out if possible. i'm not going to go into a shell b/c a LAG raised, a passive cold-called on a flush/straight drawy board when i think i may have the best hand. i want the value.

[Beachman42]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No argument with the LAG. As I stated earlier, its the CO that causes me problems. He isn't a LAG per the OP. If you bet, LAG raises with air, and CO 3 bets, you fold, right? Well, I check, LAG raises with air, and CO raises, I FOLD. You are spewing by not giving CO any credit for COLD CALLING 2 pf. What range do you put CO on?

[/ QUOTE ]

what about the majority of the time when you bet, LAG raises, you call and check/call the river and beat LAG's pocket sevens? or CO calls the turn and folds the river b/c he had a draw? don't just point out the worst case scenario here. outside of pocket pairs, the most common coldcalling hands are JTs, QJs, KJs, KQs, maybe down to 910s and as high as AQs(given his read of passivity POSTFLOP i think most big aces will 3 bet pf, i could be wrong). what i am getting at though, is that a lot of worse hands will call(or in LAG's case raise) on that board because they are drawing. and i WANT LAG to raise to get CO out if possible. i'm not going to go into a shell b/c a LAG raised, a passive cold-called on a flush/straight drawy board when i think i may have the best hand. i want the value.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not disagreeing with your reasoning, but my line gets you to the same point 1 bet cheaper. CO didn't fold to the bet/raise on the flop, so I assign a greater than 50% probability that he won't here either. You are OOP. Check and see what develops, but I'm guessing that hero should fold this hand fairly often.

[James.]

your line also lets the draws get there cheaper when they would call a bet. not good, IMO. there are alot more hearts and straight cards out there than aces, right? think combos. and i probably won't fold unless CO wakes up. and take into account the time CO folds a hand he should have called with because he is "weak" postflop and KNOWS you have a fullhouse and his flush/straight is drawing dead. he makes a mistake, and we gain from it.

[gopnik]

[ QUOTE ]
MP1 is a big LAG.
CO seems pretty passive postflop.

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7.5SB, 3 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets</font>, <font color="red"> MP1 raises</font>, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.75BB, 3 players)

What's the plan here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we need to bet the turn here.
1. Don't want to give free cards to all the draws out there
2. If MP1 raises and gets CO out, we can just call down.
3. If CO raises, easy fold.
4. If MP1 raises and CO cold-calls, then we probably have a problem and this is where it gets interesting.

[Mister Z]

I want to see what the CO thinks about this turn so I'm checking. MP seems pretty sure to bet but if he checks and CO bets I'm not feeling that great about my hand b/c I don't think CO would bet a flush draw or a weaker Q here.

If MP bets and CO calls I'm inclined to call b/c it looks like CO is on a draw and the LAG could have a pretty wide range. Raising would be over the top with 2nd pair on this board IMO.

There's a lot of river situations possible, but if it's only me and the LAG, I'm either gaybettin' or c/c'ing it.

edit: I grunched this but I'm really liking a bet now after reading the previous posts. I think we find out where we are in this hand and get more money in the pot by betting... which is nice. Carry on.