50NL KJs TPGK line?

jimpo · #1 10-08-2007, 03:32 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($32.60)
SB ($8.75)
BB ($50)
Hero ($63.10)
MP ($80.05)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $2, MP calls $2, 3 folds.

Flop: ($4.75) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3, MP raises to $8, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($20.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $13.5, Hero raises to $30

MP is 23/15/3

I felt that folding to the raise on flop is too weak, and raising folds weaker hands and keeps stronger. MP can have AJ, QJ, JT, set, or like 88-TT and not believe I have a J. I get played back on flops decent amount, not all the time, but sometimes.

I guess I would play any (maybe not Q,T?) turn the same.

What's your line, how does it differ based on the opponent (LP, LAG, TAG)?

DaycareInferno · #2 10-08-2007, 03:41 PM

usually if i get raised on the flop, and i think that i'm still ahead, but my hand isn't good enough to just move in with, i call and lead the turn, assuming fairly deep stacks. then, the opponents turn action is usually pretty genuine.

i hate calling flop raises and then checking the turn oop with hands like these. i almost never do it. 90% of the time, you'll be facing a bet on the turn, but you won't really know what it means. if you call or move in, its no cheaper than leading the turn, and you'll still get called leading the turn more often than raising the flop for some reason.

maybe that's faulty reasoning on my part, but it keeps me out of trouble sometimes.

disclaimer: usually when i do this i have a little bit stronger hand that what you've got here.

AZplaya · #3 10-08-2007, 03:43 PM

I'd much rather just call the turn bet and then put out a blocker on the river. I think c/r this turn essentially turns your hand into a bluff.

MoWeeNo · #4 10-08-2007, 03:45 PM

I like it until the turn. The turn I wouldn't check-raise, he will probably fold all hands you beat, maybe also AJ.
Here it's close to fold or call his bet. I would Call and pbb C/F the river unless you catch a J or a K.

CobraGoat · #5 10-08-2007, 03:48 PM

zomg fold PF!

also agree with c/r turn being a bluff. but really, this is such spew...such a mediocre hand OOP. you raised UTG, for villain to RR you, more often than not you are well behind.

jimpo · #6 10-08-2007, 04:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
zomg fold PF!

[/ QUOTE ]

6 handed I raise KQs UTG, KJs MP, KJo CO. Here it's 5 handed, it's a bit borderline UTG, but I choose to open up a bit.

mookboi · #7 10-08-2007, 04:12 PM

I fold flop. We are OOP vrs. good player. Why fight for marginal EV with lots of varience?

If you insist on not folding flop, hrm, I think 3betting flop is better than the line you took. If you make it 24, and he shoves, you can still fold.

whyherro · #8 10-08-2007, 04:13 PM

I probably fold on the flop without a read that villain sucks. This is a pretty dry board. Its not like he's raising here with QJ.

Once he bombs the turn you can be pretty sure you don't have the best hand.

PF who cares, it really doesn't matter.

jimpo · #9 10-08-2007, 04:16 PM

I read the "Professional No-Limit Hold'em" lately and I guess it's commitment threshold concept affects my thinking quite a bit. From that perspective, leading turn or check-calling turn with the intention of possibly folding later in the hand is a bad play. Once you get that much (over one third) of your stack in, you should not be folding often.

Using that line of thought I see myself having two options on the flop: either fold to the raise, or plan to checkraise any non T/Q turn, committing myself.

mookboi · #10 10-08-2007, 04:18 PM

Another thing to consider, with the line you took, is that we can probably eliminate draws from his range after he doesn't check behind turn.

Quite often, you'll see players with his stats (and you should be doing this too) raise this flop with like 89 or 99 or some crap like that, to try and take it down right there. However, after called, you usually check behind on turn with those hands - it's part of the whole reason for raising flop, you are getting to see 2 cards for the price of that raise (usually), as well as disguise your hand, because if you hit on river, opponent will still probably bet into you after you checked turn.

However, since he didn't check behind turn, I say we can eliminate these kind of hands from his range, except maybe like A7 or something. So what do you beat that he's raising flop with, that's not a draw?