Play a Hand With the Masters #1 River

[Exitonly]

psh just ignore it...

we're all just cranky from 300 posts about this one hand [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Lloyd]

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Side question to Lloyd: did the experts already have a separate private discussion thread that's about to be revealed? Or are they going to start posting responses in new discussion thread? Just wondering.

Everett

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They were given each decision point via PM, responded to me via PM, and did not discuss the hand with each other prior to doing so. I asked for thought process and will be including what they sent to me. I wanted to hold off debate and discussion between them until the end and in the forum post.

[Lloyd]

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Man people are going to get bored if it takes this long to post the "experts" opinions after the original threads. Either that or I'm really bad at finding that thread.

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And my last comment on this. I have been working on the last thread for over 20 minutes so far and still am not finished. This is a little more extensive than just throwing up some answers. Patience is rewarded. Impatience severely penalized. And believe it or not I don't have the time to do this 24 hours a day so things get done when it's convenient for me.

[kuro]

I changed my mind on the river. I guess you really have to push the river. I don't like the line on the turn, but I guess if you're going to take that line and villain shows any weakness at all you're stuck with a river bluff. Hope villain had K9c, 89c, 87c, or QJ and felt priced into calling the turn and now will fold.

[bugstud]

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Man people are going to get bored if it takes this long to post the "experts" opinions after the original threads. Either that or I'm really bad at finding that thread.

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And my last comment on this. I have been working on the last thread for over 20 minutes so far and still am not finished. This is a little more extensive than just throwing up some answers. Patience is rewarded. Impatience severely penalized. And believe it or not I don't have the time to do this 24 hours a day so things get done when it's convenient for me.

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I for once appreciate the effort on this hand series and mod'ing in general. Standard brews on me in vegas/10k buyin tourney line inserted here

[Rduke55]

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Man people are going to get bored if it takes this long to post the "experts" opinions after the original threads. Either that or I'm really bad at finding that thread.

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And my last comment on this. I have been working on the last thread for over 20 minutes so far and still am not finished. This is a little more extensive than just throwing up some answers. Patience is rewarded. Impatience severely penalized. And believe it or not I don't have the time to do this 24 hours a day so things get done when it's convenient for me.

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Sorry Lloyd, I didn't mean my comments to infer that I had a problem. I'm just eager and don't mean to come off as an a-hole if I did.
We all appreciate the work you and Durron are doing and this forum's much improved for it.

[CardSharpCook]

Yeah Lloyd, you're still the man, but we're jonesin' here!!

[Iconoclastic]

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I'm happy to see that the original Hero took the same line I would have preflop and on the Flop AND on the Turn...anyways lol

My original range for CO was [JJ-22,A2s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,AQo-A3o,KTo+,QJo,JTo]

After checking the F and betting the T his range was narrowed to [TT-99, 33, A3s, A9s, ATs, AQs, AJs, AKs, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, A3o, A9o, ATo, AQo, AJo, AKo, KTo+, QJo, JTo]. After calling the Turn reraise that range has been narrowed to [TT, 99, KJo/s, T9s, 33]. I'm going mostly on the read that CO is Tight and usually Tight players don't call 2:1 odds with just one pair and a OESD out of position. Now the hands that could fold to a Push include T9s and 33, and the other random hands below that strength that CO could have gone this far with. That comes out to a Fold 33% of the time. 66% of the time you're going to lose if you Push.

At least the raise on the Turn knocked MJ out of the hand so we don't have to worry about him anymore...

Now the pot is 10k, and I have 7k with the Villain covering me. If the CO:
Calls: -7000 (66%)= -4620
Folds: +10,000 (33%)= +3333

Conclusion: (Bill Walton voice) "Check it down, big man, check it down."

BTW it's perfectly reasonable for CO to have checked the nuts or the near nuts on the River. Some players are weak-tight and others (Doug Lee on TV comes to mind) check the River after being raised on the Turn with the nuts in hopes of a check-raise. Not a good play, but it happens.

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2 more things:

1) It would have been great to get the 2+2 members who are generally respected as at least competent professionals (Fossilman, Jen Harman, Greenstein, etc) to put in their "expert" analysis

2) The utility of saving 10BB by bluffing 5k instead of All-in into a pot of 10k against a Tight player should outweigh the lower FE.

[Exitonly]

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2) The utility of saving 10BB by bluffing 5k instead of All-in into a pot of 10k against a Tight player should outweigh the lower FE.

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No way, you need all the FE you can get here, and your 10BB stack is going to be tiny as hell in this tournament, you're in push fold mode this early? that's like have 200 in a pokerstars tournaemnt in the 10/20 Blind level while everyone else is at 1500...

Not a cool situation.. i'll take the extra FE thank youver much.

[Lloyd]

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We all appreciate the work you and Durron are doing and this forum's much improved for it.

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FYI, Durron is a mod for another forum and not this one. Thanks.