15/30 2 pair on the turn

[ssmallz]

Villain had 44 and MHING. Frustrating when you know you're beat but call down anyway

[Captain R]

I got on this hand late, but here were my thoughts before I read the results: I would have put him on a set or two pair (on flop). Since you have bottom two pair, it's hard to find a hand you beat. I'd probably call down anyway because you have no idea about this guy and he just sat down.

I don't think a flush draw is making a move on you here, that is just plain retarded. If someone wants to make a play with his draw, he is betting the flop near 100% in LP against 2 people who don't seem to have anything. He's not cold-calling a check-raise and then trying to move a check-raiser off the turn. He would simply bet the flop.

Also, people who are playing their first hand sitting down don't generally go straight into super-tricky let's-go-crazy mode. It usually takes them a couple of hands to warm up. And that is the "Tip of the Day!".

[ssmallz]

Can you fold to the turn check raise? Cause I feel like I should fold in that spot

[npknhldr]

I say you can't fold to one bet on turn (it's not a c/r is it? It's a bet/raise).

The pot is offering 7:1, so I would be inclined to peel one off. Plus, because K3d, JTd, or K2d, some other combo draw is out there, I think a call is warranted.

A3, AJ, 33, are not part of his range. You are worried about A4, 44, 52d, that's it. You hope to see K3d, JT/QTd (though unlikely given line, pf/flop/turn), K2d, 56d, random bluff-raise.

You expect to be behind, and could find a c/f on river. b/f is also okay on river, I would actually b/f on a diamond usually on the river. C/c is mine (and most people's) standard line on river. Turn is a call against my perceived range (though close).

[RobA]

i'm not good enough yet (meaning i haven't been in a spot just like that, and seen it be a hand that is killing me so often that i now know to fold) to be able to fold there, but i guess some others may be.

i guess its not a draw as much as i thought, but i saw it done twice in vegas in that same game on the last day...

[npknhldr]

whoops, you had Kd!!

hmm, now his range is even narrower. So a fold is possible, esp. given that it's his first hand.

Just becuase a raise with a draw is terrible here, doesn't mean someone wouldn't try it. But off the street, it's just so unlikely, I wouldn't mind flashing a King and saying (guess i can't bluff the new guy) or something, and hoping he shows his hand for free. having the Kd just removes so much of his range that you beat, a fold is great, a call is okay too.

[ssmallz]

[ QUOTE ]
A3, AJ, 33, are not part of his range. You are worried about A4, 44, 52d, that's it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you think A3o is not part of his range? This is live 15/30 and he's a prolly thinkin "I have top pair, me call down" then once he hits 2 pair on this turn, he's says "me have 2 pair, me raise" and I puke.

[drbk2]

I think this is a fold yet I never do it. Maybe a leak I need to fix. Admittedly I never really play 15 30 live anymore but in most 15 30 games against most players this is never a semibluff. I think you are looking at a set or A4 a lot of the time after the raise on the turn. On the flop he could have A4 a set or a flush draw obviously. A3 is possible but I don't really think he would check and then cold call 2 on the flop, probably just lead the flop instead. So in summary, I would call down too usually but I think it's very wrong most of the time.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a fold yet I never do it. Maybe a leak I need to fix.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villan posted. I'm calling down.

[drbk2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a fold yet I never do it. Maybe a leak I need to fix.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villan posted. I'm calling down.

[/ QUOTE ]

so what if he posted? regardless of preflop action how often is the 2nd worst two pair good here after a typical 15 30 player calls two cold on the flop and raises the turn? I hate calling this down because personally I think this is a really crappy way to play a set and I feel I'm rewarding him by playing it crappily. It's like some theorem from the Theory of Poker or something I think (never read it so I don't really know)