Calling down w/middle pair - Page 2

gehrig · #11 03-19-2007, 06:43 PM

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This line is fine but why is betting the turn better than check/calling the turn?

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ppl that arent totally retarded will tend to play perfect if u take the c/c c/c line

the c/c line feels easy bc u dont have to make any difficult decisions but it usually spews sklansky bux

gehrig · #12 03-19-2007, 06:48 PM

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What is he cold calling with preflop? Does he peel the flop super light? After he calls preflop, I assume he will usually raise the flop. I often c/f flop against these guys here. I don't like the turn b/c. If I can't b/f this turn, I'd much rather c/c (If I'm worried he could be semibluff/bluff raising too often to fold to a raise, he'll usually bet when checked to).

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Checking that flop is a mistake b/c I take it down UI often enough to make it +EV. On top of that checking makes me look way to predictable. What would you do w/AK here? K64r is also a great flop to bet at b/c its as unlikely to hit the other hands as it is to hit mine. I don't really have a range of his cold calling hands b/c well, he's likely to have a wide range. I think he cold calls w/a lot of Ax, Kx, Qx Jx and PP type hands.

C/Cing the turn was the debate I was having when I made this post. I was afraid of letting my opponent draw very cheaply b/c he could def have Ax, Qx, various gutters and flush draws.

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Most agro 40/20 guys who cc'ed pf will call if they hit a K and raise otherwise.

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gee i cant think of a way to exploit this!

PokerBob · #13 03-19-2007, 11:54 PM

i think i'd check the turn.

siegfriedandroy · #14 03-20-2007, 12:39 AM

why not just c/c the turn, allowing him to bluff or value bet a worse pair if behind, and not get 3 bets from you if he has a king or set?

ssmallz · #15 03-20-2007, 12:20 PM

I bet the turn b/c a lot of these guys peel w/Ax on the flop and might even call down w/a mid pp like 77, 88 or even 55. His hand range also has to include a small number of 6x hands that he might just try to get to showdown with.

Another possibility, that I'm sure you've all see is to watch a guy like that peel w/a bd strait or flush draw. I really didn't want to give a freebe there either.

When he called the flop, I felt he didn't have a K b/c he'd raise if he had one. I thouht the J pulled me ahead of a lot of his range. The turn play is pretty much the reason I posted this hand b/c the flop and river are standard.

Hoi Polloi · #16 03-20-2007, 01:29 PM

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I bet the turn b/c a lot of these guys peel w/Ax on the flop and might even call down w/a mid pp like 77, 88 or even 55. His hand range also has to include a small number of 6x hands that he might just try to get to showdown with.

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What do you take his c/r to mean then? Is this ever a b/f or does your pair mean you will now showdown?

Hoi Polloi · #17 03-20-2007, 01:32 PM

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On top of that checking makes me look way to predictable.

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Not sure I get this. How does an isolated turn check make you predictable? Never checking the turn makes you unpredictable? Or are you concerned with looking predictable, and, if so, why?

ssmallz · #18 03-20-2007, 10:08 PM

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I bet the turn b/c a lot of these guys peel w/Ax on the flop and might even call down w/a mid pp like 77, 88 or even 55. His hand range also has to include a small number of 6x hands that he might just try to get to showdown with.

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What do you take his c/r to mean then? Is this ever a b/f or does your pair mean you will now showdown?

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Villan had position on me so he never checkraised me. His raise could mean a bunch of things from "I slowplayed a set" to "I have a J and want a free showdown" or even "I now have a flush draw and I'm gonna semibluff you". When he raised I really wasn't sure I where I was in that hand but I did think there was a chance my J was good

ssmallz · #19 03-20-2007, 10:13 PM

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On top of that checking makes me look way to predictable.

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Not sure I get this. How does an isolated turn check make you predictable? Never checking the turn makes you unpredictable? Or are you concerned with looking predictable, and, if so, why?

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Its not so much the isolated check that makes me look predictable, its this check in conjunction with how I've been playing the rest of my hands. I really don't want him to think that when I bet the flop and check the turn I don't have top pair. If he thinks that, he will fold a lot more turns correctly and bet a lot more turns when I check even when he has complete air. On top of that, he will also start calling my flop bet more often b/c he feels he can take the pot away from me on the turn.