Free shodown w/ATo

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
This is also a clear raise preflop.

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Kinda depends on how loose the button is.

2-3 limpers is about my line where I raise this.

b

[MrHoobris]

I think this a really bad spot for a free showdown raise.

Is a better hand ever folding? No. Can you safely fold to a 3bet? No, as he could have a baby flush or 3bet two pair or a slowplayed set since its obvious you don't have a flush after blowing out the field on the flop (yes, this type of thinking may potentially be beyond him.). In this case your Tc would be live and folding a costly error.

Moreover, the pot is heads up too, so free/cheap cards and hand protection aren't issues either.

So, NONE of the criteria for a successful freeshowdown raise are met. Just simply call the turn and call the river or bet if checked to. No need to make a fancy play and let yourself get outplayed. If you're raising the turn, it should only be with the intension of being a value raise followed by a river value bet.

[SackUp]

hoobris hit my thoughts on the head.

i think this is not a good time for a free sd at all.

I was going to make a separate post a bit ago discussing what we need to take into account if we are going to make a move on the turn for a free sd b/c I see that move implemented on here a decent amount and more often than not I don't think it is employed correctly - though not sure of all of the calculations myself. maybe i'll get around to that.

[MrHoobris]

jason_t had a really good post a while ago, but I suck at using the search function. Maybe somebody with some skills could dig it up?

I forgot to mention one last criteria which was charging a draw which would not bluff the river if you called. If villain is bluff-donking a FD and will not follow through on his bluff on the river, then raising for a free showdown can be better. I don't think this benefit outweighs the other criteria in this case though.

To sum up, in a one-hand vacuum, I think the freeshowdown play is very rarely better than simply call/call and one of hte most overused plays by "pro" players. However, against tricky opposition whom one plays regularly, it can really help to disguise one's turn raises at a relatively small cost.

[ssmallz]

I don't think its ever right to raise ATo in the same spot you'd limp w/ATs. You should be more inclined to raisee ATs PF b/c bloating the pot is actually good for that hand b/c it can make a nut flush as well as broadway

[ssmallz]

My read on him is that he's never 3 betting me w/2 pair here.

[SackUp]

[ QUOTE ]
jason_t had a really good post a while ago, but I suck at using the search function. Maybe somebody with some skills could dig it up?

I forgot to mention one last criteria which was charging a draw which would not bluff the river if you called. If villain is bluff-donking a FD and will not follow through on his bluff on the river, then raising for a free showdown can be better. I don't think this benefit outweighs the other criteria in this case though.

To sum up, in a one-hand vacuum, I think the freeshowdown play is very rarely better than simply call/call and one of hte most overused plays by "pro" players. However, against tricky opposition whom one plays regularly, it can really help to disguise one's turn raises at a relatively small cost.

[/ QUOTE ]

do your remember if it was in HS, MS, or SS? Around when it was roughly? 6months, 1 year?

Jason really just needs to start posting again and this could be much easier to find.

[MrHoobris]

Yeah, I can never find anything using the search function. Unfortunately I can't remember, especially since the forum shuffle. I was hoping somebody had it favourited cause it was good, but i guess not [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].