Don't be this guy

[bav]

Playing a tournament and a guy is contemplating. He grabs a stack of 20 chips and counts 'em out in front of his cards (his cards are way far back). He grabs another stack of 20 and starts to count and the dealer says "no sir, it's going to be 20". Guy says "haha, yeah right" and keeps counting more chips. "No sir, I'm not kidding, you already brought 20 chips in front of your cards and you can't go back for more." Player gets very upset and insists the floor get called. Floor comes and says "the bet is 20" and the player starts ranting about the BS rules here and how this isn't his first trip around the block and he's played poker all over the country and this is the first time anybody ever tried to tell him that a bet brought in front of your cards is binding. No sir, that's just total BS, that's not a real rule, and everybody in this poker room is WRONG.

But then he keeps going... "I'm sick of this bull. All the time people keep using me to make an example of. Over and over it's 'that's a string bet' or 'you broke this rule' or 'you checked' when I didn't mean to. I'm just sick of this. Not just this time here, but over and over it keeps happening."

I had a hard time not busting out laughing out loud at him. MAYBE, just perhaps, if people are constantly telling you that you're string betting and breaking rules, it's because you are? Possibly?

When someone says "this is the rule", I recommend not turning into a raving, paranoid lunatic.

At the same time I understand his frustration with the variation of rules between rooms, and even between dealers and floor people. I imagine he'd been doing exactly what he did this time all night long and no other dealer had said a thing. A new dealer comes into the box and BAMMO, what he's gotten away with 6 times prior is now a string bet. That part does kinda suck.

[SellingtheDrama]

Sounds like alot of the seasoned dealers at Borgata that I see - the ones that care. One guy in particular (great dude - don't consider this a rip on him) tagged me with something three straight downs at my table.

I never made any of the mistakes again. Gotta learn from stuff like that, anyone who doesn't deserves what comes to them.

[NickMPK]

It is true that people keep their chips in front of their cards all of the time, even in places with no official "betting" line, and it is almost never enforced except on the most nittish occasions.

[bav]

[ QUOTE ]
It is true that people keep their chips in front of their cards all of the time, even in places with no official "betting" line, and it is almost never enforced except on the most nittish occasions.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oddly enough, in a cash game last weekend an AC player made a remark about such bets. I've gone all in with da nutz, and a youngin' whom I have covered is contemplating whether or not he'll call. His cards are against the rail so he has no room to work beside or behind 'em and he counts out his stack to see if he wants to call (in front of his cards, but still very close to him). I sit quietly and wait and so does the table. Eventually he does call.

After the hand a guy says "why wasn't that called a bet as soon as he counted his chips out? He counted them in front of his cards and in Atlantic City where I play that's always a bet and the dealer always calls it."

So this guy claims it's always a rule. The guy in the tournament in the original tale claims it's never a rule. And in reality it's sometimes a rule.

So what happens if you have your cards forward, count out chips beside and slightly behind 'em, then grab your cards to look at 'em again and bring 'em in closer to you. Now you didn't push your chips forward, rather you moved your cards back. Did the betting line recede in the process?

If you tuck your cards again the rail and your entire chip stack is in front of 'em, did you just go all-in?

I'm not real fond of the "in front of your cards" rule, myself. But I'm less fond of betting lines.

[pfapfap]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not real fond of the "in front of your cards" rule, myself. But I'm less fond of betting lines.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. It should be the clear intent, and in this case obviously the guy was intending to do more. However, the rules that say in front of cards do help with the larger problem of people having cards that not everyone (sometimes not even the dealer) can see.

But y'know what takes care of pretty much every problem, including this one? PROTECTING YOUR HAND. In this case, that means verbal declarations of intent.

[GTL]

i understand the string betting rules. and to some degree i understand why you would want to have a betting line or not be allowed to count out a bet in front of your cards.

however, if someone is counting out chips in front of their cards in a manner that is clearly not angle shooting then i think they should be warned before being forced to call a bet.

when you play with people for a little while, it is generally clear what they do with their chips before they make a bet, raise, or call. if they're not angling, they shouldn't be forced to do something they weren't intending to do.

this would only work in some hypothetical perfect world though.

[oddjob]

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But I'm less fond of betting lines.

[/ QUOTE ]

why? it makes things very clear.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But I'm less fond of betting lines.

[/ QUOTE ]

why? it makes things very clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if there is a line judge. I have an essay here I have been working on for a few month (meaning I have an outline and I need ot go back and write it) about the problems with betting lines. Betting lines are clearly in smaller markets where people just don't shoot big angles. The main thing a betting line does is introduce new angle to shoot. One I saw most recetnly the other day is a player picks up some chips and throws them forward so they stop short of the betting line. Someone sitting next to the player can see they are over the line, but someone at the other end of the table jsut sees that he threw some chips forward.

[Mike Gallo]

I was that guy [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

In the first no limit tournament I played in many years ago, I used my chips to cover my cards. In the process of mucking my cards, I put my chips in a forward motion in front of my cards and mucked.

A player at the table brought it to the dealers attention. The dealer had to call the floor. The floor ruled against me. I had a dead hand and lost all my chips.

I learned the hard way.

[pig4bill]

That exact same string bet was called on me at the Wynn after I'd been playing for several hours making bets that way. Never had it called on me by other dealers, or on my previous three visits, covering dozens of hours. Nor had I seen it called on anyone else. It must be something recently implemented/enforced.