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  #1  
Old 11-10-2007, 06:00 PM
David Sklansky David Sklansky is offline
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Default The Better Intelligence-Religion Correlation

Since most smart people believe in God, it is a stretch to make too much of the fact that more smart people than dumb people disbelieve.

But there is a different idea that I am sure the vast majority of smart people DO disbelieve. Namely the idea that the truth of their own beliefs is SELF EVIDENT, once the appropriate literature is studied.

I have brought up this issue before but it seems to get lost in other issues. The thing about most religions that cause the most problems, occurs because practitioners think not only that their religion is true, but that it is unreasonable to think otherwise. Without this unreasonable aspect they could not excuse some of their behavior.

If disbelief is not unreasonable they cannot ascribe to unbelievers, evilness, laziness, or ulterior motives. But if unbelieving atheists or members of other religions are in fact lazy, evil, selfish, or have ulterior motives, then it is OK for them to try to impose their position on these unbelievers and for God to send them to hell.

There are some religions that don't state that their beliefs are so self evident that unbelievers must have something wrong with them. I think they are in the minority. But there are also, I think, many members of all religions, who in spite of being a member of a specific religion, fully accept the idea that non members are not automatically unreasonable. Let's call those people Enlightened Theists.

It is my contention that the more intelligent you are, the more likely you are to be either an atheist or an Enlightened Theist. And that above a certain level of intelligence, the great majority of people are one of the two. And if I'm right, that IS strong evidence for the truth of something (that something being that no religion can lay claim to being logically self evident.)
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  #2  
Old 11-10-2007, 06:55 PM
pokervintage pokervintage is offline
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Default Re: The Better Intelligence-Religion Correlation

[ QUOTE ]
no religion can lay claim to being logically self evident

[/ QUOTE ]

Most religions can lay claim to be logiclly self evidient. Proof that there is a God is not logically self evident, that is true. But most religions are based on the fact that they believe that there is a God. Consequently, the laws they follow are given to them by God (of whom they believe exists). It is therefore logically (self evident) that if one believes in God and accepts him that he religiously follows his laws or suffer the consequences. Nothing is more logical than that.

pokervintage
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  #3  
Old 11-10-2007, 06:59 PM
hitch1978 hitch1978 is offline
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Default Re: The Better Intelligence-Religion Correlation

I enjoyed reading the OP, and pretty much agreed with it. I don't think there was anything new in it though, I mean nothing new for intelligent people.

What am I missing? The point?
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  #4  
Old 11-10-2007, 07:26 PM
txag007 txag007 is offline
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Default Re: The Better Intelligence-Religion Correlation

[ QUOTE ]
It is my contention that the more intelligent you are, the more likely you are to be either an atheist or an Enlightened Theist. And that above a certain level of intelligence, the great majority of people are one of the two. And if I'm right, that IS strong evidence for the truth of something (that something being that no religion can lay claim to being logically self evident.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Let's assume for the sake of this post that you are right. Biblically speaking, you cannot come to Christ through logic. You come to Christ through surrender.

That doesn't mean that Christian beliefs cannot be defended logically, so what does your post really prove? Only that a lot of Christians tend to relate to nonbelievers in an offensive manner.
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  #5  
Old 11-10-2007, 07:45 PM
hitch1978 hitch1978 is offline
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Default Re: The Better Intelligence-Religion Correlation

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is my contention that the more intelligent you are, the more likely you are to be either an atheist or an Enlightened Theist. And that above a certain level of intelligence, the great majority of people are one of the two. And if I'm right, that IS strong evidence for the truth of something (that something being that no religion can lay claim to being logically self evident.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Let's assume for the sake of this post that you are right. Biblically speaking, you cannot come to Christ through logic. You come to Christ through surrender.

That doesn't mean that Christian beliefs cannot be defended logically, so what does your post really prove? Only that a lot of Christians tend to relate to nonbelievers in an offensive manner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take my previous post back, it appears that the OP is not generally accepted after all. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
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  #6  
Old 11-10-2007, 07:57 PM
chezlaw chezlaw is offline
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Default Re: The Better Intelligence-Religion Correlation

[ QUOTE ]
I enjoyed reading the OP, and pretty much agreed with it. I don't think there was anything new in it though, I mean nothing new for intelligent people.

What am I missing? The point?

[/ QUOTE ]
Its correcting a prevailing mistake. Its not religon that is inherently stupid or dangerous its people who claim that their religon is self-evidently true. Many of these people are of low intelligence but there's also some who are just being politically dishonest.

chez
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  #7  
Old 11-10-2007, 07:57 PM
David Sklansky David Sklansky is offline
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Default Put More Simply

Most highly intelligent people realize that it ridiculous to think that any religion's beliefs can be arrived at through rational thought. In other words intelligent people realize that no member of a religion can reaonably think that the evidence for their religion is so clear that anybody who believes any of the other religions or atheism (or simply that the truth lies in one of those possibilities) is not thiinking straight.

This is important because lots of religious thoughts and actions can only be justified if believers can claim non believers are unreasonable.
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2007, 08:10 PM
FortunaMaximus FortunaMaximus is offline
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Default Re: Put More Simply

Is there value in irrational thought and processes, though? They may sometimes yield different solutions to the same problems. Mostly unlikely but it does happen.
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2007, 08:14 PM
Subfallen Subfallen is offline
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Default Re: Put More Simply

[ QUOTE ]

This is important because lots of religious thoughts and actions can only be justified if believers can claim non believers are unreasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say this? Original Sin alone gives Christians ample room to damn you, they don't need anything more. Heck, "being unreasonable" isn't even on the radar compared to Original Sin. It's a case of speeding tickets and Murder 1st Degree.
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2007, 10:58 PM
pokervintage pokervintage is offline
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Default Re: Put More Simply

[ QUOTE ]
Most highly intelligent people realize that it ridiculous to think that any religion's beliefs can be arrived at through rational thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean highy intelligent people that have survived the brain washing of religion? Unfortnately, even for your premise to be correct one would have to assume that the development of religious tenets were based on irrational concepts made by less than or even by highly intelligent people.

I believe that the one of the most difficult relgious beliefs to accept is the Christian miracle of Easter. Yet it a totally rational and logical concept to believe that a God would have the power to resurrect a dead human. After all since he created them he must know how they work and has the power to make them again or even bring them back to life. Most concepts of religion are indeed logical and rational if one accepts that there is an all powerful being. I do not understand why you do not understand this. Belief is the key to religion and because they believe they do not question their beliefs. But usually what they believe has a rational and logical reason behind it. One reason usually is to govern behavior of the individual. Another is to show the power of God. These are perfectly rational and logical reasons.

pokervintage
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