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  #1  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:21 AM
Proofrock Proofrock is offline
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Default 1/2: 2 hands vs. a donkey

Villain in both hands is running 58/13/2.5 over 120 hands, with a WTSD of 26% and a W$@SD of 24%.

Hand 1: I'm trying to learn to bet/fold the river. Standard?

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $200
Hero (UTG): $199
MP: $203
CO: $242.55
BTN: $200
SB: $226.60

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, 3 folds, SB calls $7, BB folds

Flop: ($18) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $15</font>, SB calls $15

Turn: ($48) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($48) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $24</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $128</font>, Hero folds


Hand 2: My main question here is about the river. What's your line? If you intend to c/shove, tell me why you prefer that to betting or vice versa.

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $197
Hero (SB): $225.70
BB: $212.20
UTG: $242.35
MP: $196.25
CO: $288.05

Pre-Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
2 folds, CO calls $2, BTN folds, Hero calls $1, BB checks

Flop: ($6) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $5</font>, BB folds, CO calls $5

Turn: ($16) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $14</font>, CO calls $14

River: ($44) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero ...
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  #2  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:24 AM
thac thac is offline
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Default Re: 1/2: 2 hands vs. a donkey

1 - I bet about 36 on the river as played.. but I bet the turn as a default (fold to a raise). He'll call with any pocket pairs, especially if they have a spade.

2 - 40. No need to get tricky and c/r against a guy that may not check behind but will call a decent amount.
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:29 AM
nazahl nazahl is offline
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Default Re: 1/2: 2 hands vs. a donkey

[ QUOTE ]

1 - I bet about 36 on the river as played.. but I bet the turn as a default (fold to a raise). He'll call with any pocket pairs, especially if they have a spade.



[/ QUOTE ]

not a huge fan of bet/folding when you have the nut flush draw to fall back on. I think the turn check is pretty solid
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  #4  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:33 AM
thac thac is offline
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Default Re: 1/2: 2 hands vs. a donkey

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1 - I bet about 36 on the river as played.. but I bet the turn as a default (fold to a raise). He'll call with any pocket pairs, especially if they have a spade.



[/ QUOTE ]

not a huge fan of bet/folding when you have the nut flush draw to fall back on. I think the turn check is pretty solid

[/ QUOTE ]

He can definitely have a lower one to help him along in the hand.
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  #5  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:44 AM
Paul Thomson Paul Thomson is offline
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Default Re: 1/2: 2 hands vs. a donkey

HAND 1: I like the turn check. as for the river bet size, it doesn't really matter...just bet whatever u think the villain will call. against a thinking player it's sometime better to pot the river to make it look like u missed your draw and am trying to buy the pot.

HAND 2: just bet the pot. he's going to check behind too much and fold to your check raise too much even iwth a flush. because u completed from the sb so a 3 and 2 are both in your range a significant portion fo the time. but that's maybe too deep of thinking for a donk.
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  #6  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:46 AM
CappyAA CappyAA is offline
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Default Re: 1/2: 2 hands vs. a donkey

1 looks very good to me. I play it the same way.

On hand 2, I'm almost inclined to overbet push sometimes here. Unless you're positive villain has a flush (in which case 40 is perfect), he is not folding a 3 and might not fold a 2 to a push.
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:13 AM
TwoToGo-Grave TwoToGo-Grave is offline
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Default Re: 1/2: 2 hands vs. a donkey

Hand one: I like the hand as played. A turn check is fine, since you do receive a free card if you're beat. The fold on the river looks standard here.

Hand two: The hand seems to be played fine, but I might suggest increasing the turn bet to about 18. On the river, I personally like the shove, since he won't lay down a three, or maybe a two, as CappyAA said, and you'll get that call enough to warrant the shove. You need a call less than 1/4 as much, after all...
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:27 AM
BDaws BDaws is offline
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Default Re: 1/2: 2 hands vs. a donkey

When the top flop card pairs on the turn, isn't that a bad time to bluff in general because it's less likely you actually have it and they are less likely to believe you?

If so, I think we should bet this turn. As Thac said, this gets value from most PP's especially with a spade and we are charging him if he has a QsJx type hand that will not commit any chips if we check turn and river misses.
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2007, 03:05 AM
Proofrock Proofrock is offline
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Default Re: 1/2: 2 hands vs. a donkey

[ QUOTE ]
1 - I bet about 36 on the river as played.. but I bet the turn as a default (fold to a raise). He'll call with any pocket pairs, especially if they have a spade.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's funny you mention that, because a few hands before this I had noticed another LAG-TAG regular had checked the turn in position for pot control on a drawy board with KK when the board paired and I thought "wow, that's a terrible check in this spot." However, in this hand I thought checking the turn was good because I have 11 outs to improve (13 if you count the two remaining kings) to a monster. I don't want to get check-raised off the hand, and I think that smaller pairs will call a river bet more often than a turn bet. On a blank river he may now c/f an unpaired spade, but I think this is made up for by the times the river completes a flush and the times he bluffs the river with a missed draw. Also, I'd hate myself for bet-folding the turn with AA vs. this particular player.

As for the river bet-size, I agree it's a little low (though with rake subtracted it's slightly more than 1/2 pot) -- against a tougher opponent I'd be worried about inducing a bluff c/r, but here Villain almost always has a weak hand and I'd like to get a call.
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2007, 03:13 AM
thac thac is offline
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Default Re: 1/2: 2 hands vs. a donkey

I'm not worried about a bluff c/r I just think we can get more value.

As for betting the turn.. we have a draw but it's not to the nuts. I'd rather bet now and find out if I'm against 22/33 than hit the Qs on the river and have him go crazy. This, along with the fact that he's calling with random spades and a bunch of pocket pairs because we can't have trips ever makes me wanna bet the turn and make a decision on the river.
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