a foray back into 30/60 limit, 2 overpairs in big pots

[James282]

Maybe these spots are elementary, maybe they are complicated. I think a lot of people will make the right decision for the wrong reasons and the wrong decision for the right reasons.

Hand 1:

Ten handed game, 4 limpers to me, I raise A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the button, BB comes along, first 2 limpers call, now the third limper reraises. I cap, all call.

Flop is 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Preflop limp reraiser bets, CO calls, I raise, BB calls 2 cold, limp reraiser 3 bets, Co drops, I cap, BB calls.

Turn is the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. bb checks, limp reraiser bets, I raise, BB calls 2 cold, limp reraiser calls.

River is the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. BB checks, limp-reraiser thinks and bets...hero?

hand 2: 6 handed game. unknown raises utg, button calls, I three-bet Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] from the SB, bb calls, utg thinks and caps, we all call.

flop is 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I check, bb bets, UTG raises, button dumps, I reraise, bb thinks and calls 2 cold, UTG calls.

Turn is the J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I bet, bb calls, UTG now raises. Hero..?

In your answers to these hands, please provide some sort of weighted range, even if it is "I think the guy usually has clubs, but sometimes he could have JJ, and maybe 5% of the time 33 with a club" or whatever. Answers like "call obv pot is big" aren't helpful in either scenario, thanks!

James

[ILOVEPOKER929]

Hand 1: I dont like the flop cap. Call the flop 3bet and raise the turn. This gives you max protection in a large pot and Max value. I thinking capping the flop in this spot is a definite mistake. (EDIT: I realize that the villain still donked the turn allowing you to raise the turn anyways but most live players will slow down after your flop cap unless they have a better hand than AA)

RIVER: I would call here out of confusion praying that this guy has a badly played KK's hand that just decided to bet the river scare card. The pot is also quite large making a crying call more likely to be profitable. The fact that BB could have a better hand on he river doesnt worry me since he mayve bet the river if he had the flush or 7x. His most likely hand to me is a broken straight draw at this point but if the BB check/raises the river you'll have a very easy fold.

Hand 2: Against a typical live player I would fold to the turn raise. Its not just that JJ,KK,AA,AcKc very likely here. This guy is also raising the turn in a protected pot after you check/3bet the flop and he knows you could have AA here. And those rare times you are somehow ahead you will get rivered quite often. I also think donking the flop is ok too.

[12ressiMorP]

call hand 1, fold hand 2

[vmacosta]

Hand 1 seems like a pretty straightforward call. You'd like an overcall from BB if he is a fish with a pair+draw that missed and you'd also like to fold if he c/r's the field here. If you were hu with the limp-reraiser it would be much closer to a raise, but I'd still prob call there cuz lrr's in lp have suited stuff a lot. Obv you're not folding.

Hand 2 is a bit harder and a live "feel" would really help. Thing is, though, your hand is so face-up and utg is still c/r'ing the field so he's gotta be a fps lag for me to showdown here.

[danzasmack]

in hand one doesn't the guy always have like 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

[AragornX151]

Hand 1 is a call. You're beaten a lot of the time but he COULD have AA with your or KK the way the hand was played, and the odds are enormous given that.

Hand 2 is a fold 99% of the time, but the pot is bigger than it should be for your hand, which is what makes it "tempting." Heads up I probably call, but with two players in it's a pretty clear fold.

[drbk2]

Hand 1: In my experience people never have premium hands when they overlimp then reraise. Suited connector type of hands. The only hands I see the limp reraiser having here are 76s or maybe 9h8h, Ah9h or something from the way the flop and turn action went. Also, the big blind may have a 7 or stupidly trying to check raise a flush. So I would fold. I think you are looking at 9h8h or 76s over 90% of the time and an overpair a small percentage of the time.

Hand 2: I'm assuming this is an online hand. It's puzzling that preflop capper didn't cap the flop since that's the way I see most people play AA or KK online after capping preflop. I also think that with AcKc or AcQc he woulda capped the flop. I think he either has JJ or the naked Ac here and no flush. I don't think the big blind has you beat either. I would call the raise and check call any non club non A or K river.

[James282]

some very interesting reads so far. i'll give it a little more time and then share my thoughts and results.

[Joe Tall]

Is this live or online? I assume online, right?

Tough spot in Hand#1. I feel the BB has a hand like 66, the LRR-KK and I want to raise the river. Say the river is a black-7, how can we not raise?


[ QUOTE ]
I think the guy usually has clubs, but sometimes he could have JJ, and maybe 5% of the time 33 with a club" or whatever. Answers like "call obv pot is big" aren't helpful in either scenario, thanks!


[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't he have AcJx if its an over-aggro online player, I would not doubt it.

[James282]

After really thinking it over, I think hand 1 is a call and hand 2 is a fold. I had never seen a limp-reraise after limping behind 2 guys with an overpair...until this hand. He had KK. I think it's very close, but obviously those of you who have been playing these games more frequently than I know the texture of them to the point where a good number of you were calling out overpairs in his range where I didnt think that was a possibility. The cold caller seriously complicates things because he will usually have hearts or a hand like 76 or 78...but in the end counting the pot and weighting ranges certainly makes it a call even though we are usually behind.

Hand 2, I think is a relatively easily fold given the preflop cappers flop raise and turn raise vs. two people. The pot isn't as big, and we have to pay 2 more bets with bad reverse implied odds if we are behind. This time, however, BB had 99 and the UTG capper had AcKx and I folded. Thanks for all the input, my instincts are a little rusty these days.

James