Is this a place to slowplay ? Set of Kings NL25

[TheBad]

Villain was like 25/8 after 20 hands, so no real reads. Didn´t notice him before.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Hero ($45.50)</font>
SB ($11.10)
BB ($24.75)
UTG ($15.65)
<font color="#C00000">MP1 ($20.25)</font>
MP2 ($11.70)
CO ($19.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $1.50.

Flop: ($3.85) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($3.85) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $1.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3</font>, MP1 calls $1.50.

River: ($9.85) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4.25</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $8.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $36.75</font>, MP1 calls $7 (All-In).

Final Pot: $40.85

PF: Maybe a little bit big, but i really didn´t want some random Ace to limp/call.

Flop: Villain instachecks. I decide that my hand is strong enough to give him a free card. After my big preflop raise, he really can´t call a bet here without a set or AQ, right ?

Turn: That deuce probably didn´t help him, but he bets. I minraise not to loose a customer. Why chase him away ? I try to look as weak as possible.

River: Tricky. He obv has no King. If he has a set/boat, he will reraise anyway. So i try to get some value out of AQ or 2pair, right ?

[Chargers In 07]

[ QUOTE ]
PF: Maybe a little bit big, but i really didn´t want some random Ace to limp/call.

[/ QUOTE ] ugh...i couldn't read the rest.

[TheProdigy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PF: Maybe a little bit big, but i really didn´t want some random Ace to limp/call.

[/ QUOTE ] ugh...i couldn't read the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Giving your thoughts on why here might be useful to the OP. One liners that he obviously has no idea how to decipher how he was wrong do not help anyone.

OP: Preflop just raise 5x (4x bigblind + 1 for each limper). Random aces limp/calling isn't bad, it is profitable. They have 3 outs to beat you, and if their x hits then they may pay off some more with a middle pair. Don't try to push out hands that have barely any outs vs you.

Postflop is fine. If you feel he is weak then it is fine to slowplay here. Obv. a J,10 or A may lose you a pot(straight hands with those combinations are all possible to limp-call) so it's not a always slowplay thing but this is a situation where it isn't horrible. I would prefer K83 instead, and that is also what you should be looking for, but if he looked really weak then yea slowplaying here is not a bad thing.

[EN09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PF: Maybe a little bit big, but i really didn´t want some random Ace to limp/call.

[/ QUOTE ] ugh...i couldn't read the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Giving your thoughts on why here might be useful to the OP. One liners that he obviously has no idea how to decipher how he was wrong do not help anyone.

OP: Preflop just raise 5x (4x bigblind + 1 for each limper). Random aces limp/calling isn't bad, it is profitable. They have 3 outs to beat you, and if their x hits then they may pay off some more with a middle pair. Don't try to push out hands that have barely any outs vs you.

Postflop is fine. If you feel he is weak then it is fine to slowplay here. Obv. a J,10 or A may lose you a pot(straight hands with those combinations are all possible to limp-call) so it's not a always slowplay thing but this is a situation where it isn't horrible. I would prefer K83 instead, and that is also what you should be looking for, but if he looked really weak then yea slowplaying here is not a bad thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

while studying NLT&amp;P and PNL i see references to bet sizing preflop/postflop for pot manipulation. "do you want to play a big pot or small pot" kind of stuff. OP's raise seems out of line to me as i'll also raise 4xBB + limpers as a rule but, i've also been attempting to randomize my preflop betting patterns as well. leaning towards raising more when i want to play a bigger pot against fewer opponents.

rambling now... not sure where this is going but this is a gray area for me.

my gut instinct says the preflop raise was too high for the wrong reasons. the side wanting to utilise bet sizing says this is okay since i want to make the pot bigger and hopefully play for stacks.

as for the flop, how negative would it be to bet 60-70% of pot?

EN

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
while studying NLT&amp;P

[/ QUOTE ]

was written by limit players with minimal NL experience

[TheProdigy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PF: Maybe a little bit big, but i really didn´t want some random Ace to limp/call.

[/ QUOTE ] ugh...i couldn't read the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Giving your thoughts on why here might be useful to the OP. One liners that he obviously has no idea how to decipher how he was wrong do not help anyone.

OP: Preflop just raise 5x (4x bigblind + 1 for each limper). Random aces limp/calling isn't bad, it is profitable. They have 3 outs to beat you, and if their x hits then they may pay off some more with a middle pair. Don't try to push out hands that have barely any outs vs you.

Postflop is fine. If you feel he is weak then it is fine to slowplay here. Obv. a J,10 or A may lose you a pot(straight hands with those combinations are all possible to limp-call) so it's not a always slowplay thing but this is a situation where it isn't horrible. I would prefer K83 instead, and that is also what you should be looking for, but if he looked really weak then yea slowplaying here is not a bad thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

while studying NLT&amp;P and PNL i see references to bet sizing preflop/postflop for pot manipulation. "do you want to play a big pot or small pot" kind of stuff. OP's raise seems out of line to me as i'll also raise 4xBB + limpers as a rule but, i've also been attempting to randomize my preflop betting patterns as well. leaning towards raising more when i want to play a bigger pot against fewer opponents.

rambling now... not sure where this is going but this is a gray area for me.

my gut instinct says the preflop raise was too high for the wrong reasons. the side wanting to utilise bet sizing says this is okay since i want to make the pot bigger and hopefully play for stacks.

as for the flop, how negative would it be to bet 60-70% of pot?

EN

[/ QUOTE ]

You can bet the flop. I said he could slowplay b/c the instacheck told him he thought the guy was weak. That doesn't mean the same thing on all opponents, though, but if this one it does mean that, then a check is fine. Usually a bet is fine.

Preflop: Don't do what you are doing. If you want to change bet sizing, do it by position, not by your preflop hand. Otherwise it is too obvious.

[EN09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
while studying NLT&amp;P

[/ QUOTE ]

was written by limit players with minimal NL experience

[/ QUOTE ]

guess i'll be moving it to the other side of the shelf then... tnx. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

EN

[Effen]

Played fine. He seemed to have a hand here so you were getting his money anyway, but you'll get some people to call with Qx here.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
Played fine. He seemed to have a hand here so you were getting his money anyway, but you'll get some people to call with Qx here.

[/ QUOTE ]

the turn minraise is meh

leaving 1.5x pot behind for the river is something I think leads to a ton of lost river value

4.50 on the turn leaves it at around pot, I think 5-5.50 is the target zone

its really amazing how much bigger a standard river bet gets when you get a little bigger flop/turn bet in

I get careless in planning the betsizes sometimes and it annoys me to lose value on rivers because I got sloppy on the turn

[EN09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PF: Maybe a little bit big, but i really didn´t want some random Ace to limp/call.

[/ QUOTE ] ugh...i couldn't read the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Giving your thoughts on why here might be useful to the OP. One liners that he obviously has no idea how to decipher how he was wrong do not help anyone.

OP: Preflop just raise 5x (4x bigblind + 1 for each limper). Random aces limp/calling isn't bad, it is profitable. They have 3 outs to beat you, and if their x hits then they may pay off some more with a middle pair. Don't try to push out hands that have barely any outs vs you.

Postflop is fine. If you feel he is weak then it is fine to slowplay here. Obv. a J,10 or A may lose you a pot(straight hands with those combinations are all possible to limp-call) so it's not a always slowplay thing but this is a situation where it isn't horrible. I would prefer K83 instead, and that is also what you should be looking for, but if he looked really weak then yea slowplaying here is not a bad thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

while studying NLT&amp;P and PNL i see references to bet sizing preflop/postflop for pot manipulation. "do you want to play a big pot or small pot" kind of stuff. OP's raise seems out of line to me as i'll also raise 4xBB + limpers as a rule but, i've also been attempting to randomize my preflop betting patterns as well. leaning towards raising more when i want to play a bigger pot against fewer opponents.

rambling now... not sure where this is going but this is a gray area for me.

my gut instinct says the preflop raise was too high for the wrong reasons. the side wanting to utilise bet sizing says this is okay since i want to make the pot bigger and hopefully play for stacks.

as for the flop, how negative would it be to bet 60-70% of pot?

EN

[/ QUOTE ]

You can bet the flop. I said he could slowplay b/c the instacheck told him he thought the guy was weak. That doesn't mean the same thing on all opponents, though, but if this one it does mean that, then a check is fine. Usually a bet is fine.

Preflop: Don't do what you are doing. If you want to change bet sizing, do it by position, not by your preflop hand. Otherwise it is too obvious.

[/ QUOTE ]

wasn't insinuating anything on your flop slowplay reasoning there prodigy. i do it as well on certain hands and flop textures. my thoughts were more like bottomsets reasoning about making the pot bigger on the flop/turn so you can size a nice river bet on the end - planning the hand. maybe i'm reading books too much...

thanks for the positional bet sizing comments.

EN