Extracting value from mid 2-pair

[anotherFliplost]

Stars $0.5/$1.00, 10-handed.

Table is juicy: Running 40-50% with very little preflop raising except from known TAGs. It's pretty easy to limp along in late position with a wide range of hands. Because of this, hero's image sucks. I've overlimped a lot with typical overlimping hands (small pockets, SCs, etc.) and missed everything, and am down 10 BB's. I could be tilting.

The hand:

Hero is in MP1 with T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

3 folds, Hero raises (tilt!), 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, Bu calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop (10 SB): A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO raises, Bu folds, BB calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls

Turn (8.5 BB): T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, BB folds, <font color="red"> Hero raises </font>

Please ignore preflop, because "fold preflop" makes for a short discussion. I make these raises occassionally to loosen up my ultra-nitty fit-or-fold image.

This is my dilemna: MP3 will call one bet with a wide range of bad hands. I'm not sure if he will call two bets, but I'm not sure that I want him to call. He could easily have a 5-out draw to a better two pair or even be chasing the backdoor club draw. I'm basically wondering if it's best to check-raise the turn or the river here. I was thinking about bet-3-bet the turn, but I'm not sure that I want to commit to calling a cap + river bet from CO with a mid two-pair hand. CO was one of the decent players at the table and probably wouldn't overplay TPMK if I donked the turn. Is check-raising the turn the best course of action?

[HoneyBadger]

Please ignore preflop, because "fold preflop" makes for a short discussion.

Fold flop.

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
Please ignore preflop, because "fold preflop" makes for a short discussion.

Fold flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

folding this flop for one bet is pretty bad given the pot size.

played fine IMO except for preflop LDO

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
Stars $0.5/$1.00, 10-handed.

Table is juicy: Running 40-50% with very little preflop raising except from known TAGs. It's pretty easy to limp along in late position with a wide range of hands. Because of this, hero's image sucks. I've overlimped a lot with typical overlimping hands (small pockets, SCs, etc.) and missed everything, and am down 10 BB's. I could be tilting.

The hand:

Hero is in MP1 with T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

3 folds, Hero raises (tilt!), 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, Bu calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop (10 SB): A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO raises, Bu folds, BB calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls

Turn (8.5 BB): T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, BB folds, <font color="red"> Hero raises </font>

Please ignore preflop, because "fold preflop" makes for a short discussion. I make these raises occassionally to loosen up my ultra-nitty fit-or-fold image.

This is my dilemna: MP3 will call one bet with a wide range of bad hands. I'm not sure if he will call two bets, but I'm not sure that I want him to call. He could easily have a 5-out draw to a better two pair or even be chasing the backdoor club draw. I'm basically wondering if it's best to check-raise the turn or the river here. I was thinking about bet-3-bet the turn, but I'm not sure that I want to commit to calling a cap + river bet from CO with a mid two-pair hand. CO was one of the decent players at the table and probably wouldn't overplay TPMK if I donked the turn. Is check-raising the turn the best course of action?

[/ QUOTE ]

pot is already big. your hand is good but vulnerable. dont get fancy.

[BigBadBabar]

ignoring pf, postflop is fine with me

[StrictlyStrategy]

You're on tilt because you're stuck ten bets in a .50-1 game?

Dude, you need to work on that way more than anything else then.

[gobbledygeek]

Help a clueless noob out: on the flop, what do we usually count for outs here? If I have a pair plus an overcard to the board (ex. A7 on Q72r board) I usually count 5 outs (3 aces, 2 sevens). But what do we count in this general case where our unpaired card ain't an overcard to the board? I've typically being counting 4 outs (2 for the paired card and 2 for the other card); is this acceptable? In this case seeing the turn for one bet would be fine.

GcluelessnoobG

[BigBadBabar]

gg, there are 3 tens and 2 sevens left in the deck = 5 outs.

[gobbledygeek]

[ QUOTE ]
gg, there are 3 tens and 2 sevens left in the deck = 5 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

But don't we have to discount some of those outs for the time when our two pair will be crushed by a bigger two pair? Doesn't seem right to count the same number of outs for A7 on Q72 vs T7 on A72.

[Jantjebeton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
gg, there are 3 tens and 2 sevens left in the deck = 5 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

But don't we have to discount some of those outs for the time when our two pair will be crushed by a bigger two pair? Doesn't seem right to count the same number of outs for A7 on Q72 vs T7 on A72.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would discount ~1 out for that.