More on live poker etiquette

[brettbrettr]

I might be a nit about this but I got inspired by the other etiquette threads and figured I'd put this one here. Feel free to add more. FWIW I think game/player management is more important than most of the people I regularly play with.

1. When winning a big pot, do not ask the other person what he had while dragging his chips. I think this is pretty important on a few different levels, but people do it all the time.

Also, I do have a question. In a multiway pot, lots of people I play with seem to think its ok to coffeehouse/speculate on what someone else holds.

EG, in LHE, there's a raise and 2 callers and the button 3 bets. The flop comes KK2, everyone checks. One of the people in the hand looks at the 3 bettor and says "You must have a king" and is being serious.

To me, this is [censored]. I'm of the opinion that unless its HU you should generally STFU. But I don't know the rule. Help.

[pfapfap]

It's a murky situation. When someone is in a hand, s/he can make an argument that s/he's invested in the pot and therefore has bought the right to try for reads or think aloud or whatever else. Usually the person remains in the hand, so it's not costing money to the bettor, and it's more hassle than it's worth for the dealer to try to eliminate it completely. When someone says such a thing and folds, or others not in the hand comment, then there's more of a solid case for STFU, and you have a right to ask the dealer to nip it.

I agree nobody should say anything at all, but you gotta pick your battles. Hell, where I play, some of the dealers will comment on the hands, but then I play in the low rent district.

[Brad1970]

I agree that the chit chat during the hand needs to be stopped. The house should instruct the dealers to do so. Some do some don't. I don't necessarily mind the banter it when it is HU (a la Daniel Negreanu) but when it is multi-way, all players need to zip it. If you are not in the hand, then STFU Period...

[jba]

#1 is rude. IMO after you drag a pot you shouldn't look at or even talk to people that were in the hand and lost. not just what you brought up but also stuff like "man I didn't think I was going to win that one" or "wow you scared me on the turn", it's best just not to say anything and let them cool a bit. if they talk to you, then fine. it can only cause problems.

#2 is not just rude it's improper and should be stopped.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
I might be a nit about this but I got inspired by the other etiquette threads and figured I'd put this one here. Feel free to add more. FWIW I think game/player management is more important than most of the people I regularly play with.

1. When winning a big pot, do not ask the other person what he had while dragging his chips. I think this is pretty important on a few different levels, but people do it all the time.

Also, I do have a question. In a multiway pot, lots of people I play with seem to think its ok to coffeehouse/speculate on what someone else holds.

EG, in LHE, there's a raise and 2 callers and the button 3 bets. The flop comes KK2, everyone checks. One of the people in the hand looks at the 3 bettor and says "You must have a king" and is being serious.

To me, this is [censored]. I'm of the opinion that unless its HU you should generally STFU. But I don't know the rule. Help.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct bu have given up on this one. LIk told one player who asked me, its like trying to rope the wind.f I could stop it, I would, but I can't so I'll direct my energy elsewhere (like the players not in the hand who like to speculate out loud)

[habsfanca11]

You're "out" in a multiway pot like this when you get questions or general coffehousing - is that the pot is multiway and it's not fair to the other players in the hand to be discussing such things. Last week, 4way hand, I'm last to act in the CO, MP (3rd to act) looks at me and asks if I'm going to raise (I raise a lot) - my reply ... there are other people yet to act, I wouldn't be fair for me to answer that question. He calls, I raise, he looks disgusted and the hand continues. After I dragged the pot I turned to him and said - "look, if its heads-up I answer your question, but with all the others in the pot its not fair to them that you should get information before you act." He thought about it for a second and I think understood and the general good feel of the table continued.

You guys are all correct - this shouldn't happen but sometimes it's a delicate situation to keep the general "feel good" nature of the table going while still trying to delicately tell someone to STFU.

Good thread. Cheers.

[that_pope]

Agree that anyone who does #1 should be punched in the face. It is one thing to do it while dragging the pot. The time it is ok to ask, is if you fold when HU, and the other player gets the pot without showing, you can ask and try to see if you made the correct laydown.

The 2nd case should only happen when HU as well. I have verbally told other people after the hand is over to not speculate on my hand, if they did so while either not in the hand, or in a multiway hand.

Examples: A checkraise on the turn on the paired board: He must have three of a kind!!!

Leading out when the third to a flush comes: He hit his flush!!!

People not in the hand say this just as often as people in the hand, if not more.

I never comment on a hand unless I am heads up and closing the action on the river, or folding when the action is on me. Other than that, I keep my mouth shut. And I only comment when I think there is a >70% chance I am behind, and I am making a crappy crying call.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]

Agree that anyone who does #1 should be punched in the face.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've caught myself doing it on occasion and I agree someone should have punched me in the face.

[Howard Beale]

I don't think there even IS such a thing a b&m etiquette anymore. The various rules/customs that I learned when I first started playing in the NYC clubs ~12 years ago are no longer observed by far more many players than do observe them.

For example:

Last night I played 40-80 at CAZ. That is a significant limit, not a 3-6 game. There was coffee-housing, speculating about hands both by the players in the hands AND those out of the hands, players folding their cards on the flop or turn FACE UP while play was still going on and, the worst of all, one player who had folded actually leaned over the back of the player next to him to tap the initial raiser on the shoulder to tell him that he would've SO beat him if he's played because he would've flopped a flush on the all spade flop. This while there are 2 other players contesting the pot. Only one of the dealers actually told these players to keep quiet because of the one player to a hand rule.

I don't know how rampant this conduct is elsewhere but I'm supposing it's the same or else I wouldn't be seeing this type of thread both here and on other forums.

Bottom line: There is a NEW b&m etiquette developing. I'm older than almost all of you folks and I'm adapting. I've given up on being the table nit and just use the information given by these breaches to my advantage.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think there even IS such a thing a b&m etiquette anymore. The various rules/customs that I learned when I first started playing in the NYC clubs ~12 years ago are no longer observed by far more many players than do observe them.

For example:

Last night I played 40-80 at CAZ. That is a significant limit, not a 3-6 game. There was coffee-housing, speculating about hands both by the players in the hands AND those out of the hands, players folding their cards on the flop or turn FACE UP while play was still going on and, the worst of all, one player who had folded actually leaned over the back of the player next to him to tap the initial raiser on the shoulder to tell him that he would've SO beat him if he's played because he would've flopped a flush on the all spade flop. This while there are 2 other players contesting the pot. Only one of the dealers actually told these players to keep quiet because of the one player to a hand rule.

I don't know how rampant this conduct is elsewhere but I'm supposing it's the same or else I wouldn't be seeing this type of thread both here and on other forums.

Bottom line: There is a NEW b&m etiquette developing. I'm older than almost all of you folks and I'm adapting. I've given up on being the table nit and just use the information given by these breaches to my advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]


Its not just etiquette.
A few months back i dealt a poker cruise. I expected that the sort of people who would sign up for a poker cruise were serious poker players. I was mistaken in this belief.

On my first evening dealing there in a $2-%5 NL game (the biggest game going that night) one player was all in and the two other players in the hand then agreed to check it down. AFter the completeion of the hand told the players invoplved that agreeing to check down a pot (especially with an all-in player is inappropriate -- i was immediately berated by all ten players at the table who assured me that I had no clue what i was talking about.

To me this isn't an ettiquette issue, its an issue of cheating and collusion, but it has become so common place that players actually now believe its acceptable conduct.

In fact the only time I have been "written-up" at work was after a dispute with a player over this same issue (it escalated when he wouldn't stop swearing at me and the floor person just stood there and did nothing).