Tom Brady Best QB Ever!!!!!!

[MacGuyV]

Assani,
I think Brady is great and him & Manning are interchangable at the top 2. But a couple things:
#1 - Rudi Johnson, Chris Perry, and TJ Housh are nobodies in the NFL if they played with 85% of the QB's in the league - Palmer is that damn good.
#2 - 2001 should be removed from the record books. It was and always will be a joke. They were given the division and a bye, and then given a game at home in the snow against a team from California. Ignoring this, Brady still only engineerd 2 TD drives the entire freaking postseason. Special Teams singlehandily won the Steelers game (along with Kordell Stewart) and Ty Law clearly won the SB and was robbed of the MVP poor defensive regular season stats not withstanding.

Mind you, what the guy has accomplished since then is amazing; particularly in 2003 in a pass-heavy offense with no great WR's and arguably the worst starting RB in the AFC.

[Assani Fisher]

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#1 - Rudi Johnson, Chris Perry, and TJ Housh are nobodies in the NFL if they played with 85% of the QB's in the league - Palmer is that damn good.


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Rudi Johnson had his highest career yards per attempt in 2003- the year before Carson Palmer took over. In Carson's first year, he dropped a whole 1/2 yard per carry on his average.

Chris Perry is a former first round pick. The kid has talent. By all accounts, he is living up to the talent- its just that with Rudy there, theres no rush to have him start.

I never said that T.J. was a great player, but as a #2 WR you can do a lot worse.

[Assani Fisher]

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#2 - 2001 should be removed from the record books. It was and always will be a joke. They were given the division and a bye, and then given a game at home in the snow against a team from California. Ignoring this, Brady still only engineerd 2 TD drives the entire freaking postseason. Special Teams singlehandily won the Steelers game (along with Kordell Stewart) and Ty Law clearly won the SB and was robbed of the MVP poor defensive regular season stats not withstanding.


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What do you mean by "they were given the division"? Unexplained statements like this hurt your credibility imo. And teams that have good regular seasons earn the right to have HFA in the postseason- why is the fact that Oakland had to play in NE an excuse? Maybe Oakland should've won more regular season games and they wouldn't have to worry about that.

You also fail to state that Brady was injured for the AFC Championship and he had a first round playoff bye....so he only played in 2 games. When you consider that, it makes your 2 TD drive stat a little less signficant. You also fail to mention that he had 3 crucial FG drives: one to tie Oakland, one to beat Oakland in OT, and one to win the SB. Furthermore, I think that the OT drive against Oakland ended inside the 10 yard line and they kicked a FG before 4th down. If they wanted to, that could've been the 3rd TD drive, and 3 TD drives in 2 games isn't horrible when you're also kicking some FGs.

Apparently the voters disagreed with you on MVP. I won't argue that Ty Law did have a big impact though.

[lastchance]

Brady was a remarkably good QB in 2001 considering that was his first real season. He was still nowhere near the QB he is right now. Brady may have come up with some key drives, but the Patriots only scored 6 offensive points in the Super Bowl, and were not particularly strong against Oakland. They weren't exactly a great team that year, unlike the 2003 and 2004 Patriots. Tom Brady has definitely become one of the best QB's in the league, clearly better than anyone not named Manning, but 2001, he was simply a very good first year starter, about league average as a QB.

[tolbiny]

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Bill Belicheck has a losing career record in games in which Tom Brady is not his Quarterback.

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The cleveland browns were 3-13 the year before Belicheck took over and went 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5 and 1-1 in the playoffs. Thats a pretty good run for a rookie head coach (he was 5-11 the next year they were 4-3 i believe when the move to Baltimore was annoucned which made winning virtually impossible that year).

EDIT: Otto Graham for best QB ever.

[MacGuyV]

Yeah too many people are too results-oriented about this. Again, 2002-2005 great player. He was clearly pedestrian at best in 2001. IMO this is not even debatable and certainly not worth discussing with anybody who can't acknowledge such overwhelming evidence. The fact that nobody cares about individual single season performances in any sport not named baseball along with the fact that he eventually won 3 SB's makes it feel like a waste a time to argue anyway because all anybody remembers is "OMG 3 SB's". Whatever, the refs still gave them the division in 2001.

[Assani Fisher]

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Brady was a remarkably good QB in 2001 considering that was his first real season. He was still nowhere near the QB he is right now. Brady may have come up with some key drives, but the Patriots only scored 6 offensive points in the Super Bowl, and were not particularly strong against Oakland. They weren't exactly a great team that year, unlike the 2003 and 2004 Patriots. Tom Brady has definitely become one of the best QB's in the league, clearly better than anyone not named Manning, but 2001, he was simply a very good first year starter, about league average as a QB.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed with absolutely everything you said except that silly part about Manning at the end. Peyton Manning has been a loser in both college and the pros. In the NFL, he has been blessed with one of the greatest WRs of all time, an excellent #2 WR, arguably the best all around RB in the NFL today, and last year a defense that let up the second fewest points in the entire NFL. Yet he has never even made it to the Super Bowl yet alone won it. Its one thing to continually get close but not quite win like Elway was considered before Terrell Davis came along; Its another thing entirely to not even be able to make it to the big game and to continually have one of the best surrounding casts in the league at the same time. Manning doesn't even belong in the conversation with Brady imo. In fact, I'd put Big Ben ahead of Manning as an NFL QB. Its not about stats. Winning is all that matters. Take a look at how average the Steelers were before Big Ben arrived to see just how good he is.

[Assani Fisher]

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Bill Belicheck has a losing career record in games in which Tom Brady is not his Quarterback.

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The cleveland browns were 3-13 the year before Belicheck took over and went 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5 and 1-1 in the playoffs. Thats a pretty good run for a rookie head coach (he was 5-11 the next year they were 4-3 i believe when the move to Baltimore was annoucned which made winning virtually impossible that year).

EDIT: Otto Graham for best QB ever.

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How does announcing that your team is moving make winning impossible? Do the players no longer want to win because they'll be playing somewhere else next year? I don't understand that sentiment.

Point taken that he improved that team greatly overall though...I'll agree with you there.

[Assani Fisher]

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Yeah too many people are too results-oriented about this. Again, 2002-2005 great player. He was clearly pedestrian at best in 2001. IMO this is not even debatable and certainly not worth discussing with anybody who can't acknowledge such overwhelming evidence. The fact that nobody cares about individual single season performances in any sport not named baseball along with the fact that he eventually won 3 SB's makes it feel like a waste a time to argue anyway because all anybody remembers is "OMG 3 SB's". Whatever, the refs still gave them the division in 2001.

[/ QUOTE ]How did the refs give them the division? Are you ever going to explain that? And in the same post that you explain that can you please tell me who your favorite team is? I think I have an idea of why you feel so strongly.

[Jack of Arcades]

the only way tom brady's peak is so high is if you're judging solely on championships. The first two teams Brady quarterbacked weren't very good, and yes, I'm including the SB winners in that. It's only been in the last two years that Tom Brady has been the biggest reason the team has won.