$20/180 JJ Hand w/ Overcard On Flop

[Solitare]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO (t1500)
Button (t1490)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1500)
UTG (t1480)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1650)
MP2 (t1400)
Hero (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, CO calls t60, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls t80, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t400</font>, CO folds, Button folds, BB calls t300.

Flop: (t970) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero ???

2nd hand of as Stars $20/180, so no reads.

What hands do we put the villian on?

What is Hero's line here?

[pocketjacks]

I put villain on a middle pocket pair. 8,8 or 9,9. I feel that if he had A,K after the raise by the button he probably would have moved it in order to not have to play A,K out of position. I bet $400 on that flop, and if I get checkraised or if he smooth calls and leads the flop I lay it down.

If he smooth calls and checks the turn, I am getting it all in on any non-ace turn.

[JFJB]

[ QUOTE ]
I put villain on a middle pocket pair. 8,8 or 9,9.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is looking at a board with two overs and a flush draw. I expect him to fold to any reasonable value bet. Try to make it look like a flush draw and jam it, he may call with is under pair. I think that about 10 to 15% of the time he shows AA or AK.

[Jbrochu]

Preflop after the button miniraise I'm either calling or shoving depending on if I know anything about the button. I don't like putting in the 3rd raise in this spot.

I don't think anybody can accurately put the BB on a range here without a read on him since there are so many bad players early in these tournaments. A meaningful c-bet commits you to the pot and probably allows villain to play perfectly. Even though the board is very coordinated I would probably check behind and see what happens on the turn.

[Solitare]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop after the button miniraise I'm either calling or shoving depending on if I know anything about the button. I don't like putting in the 3rd raise in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Normally I'd call the button miniraise. I reraised only because it was the 2nd hand of the tournament. Because of the weak players and bad play you see at these stages, I thought there was a very good chance I had the best hand and could get one of the three players to come along with a worse hand. If the button put me all-in, that would suck because I'd have the pot odds to call. But I did think a possibility was that the button would fold and one of the other two would do something foolish. A three-way all-in pot against AK and 99 would be great.

Anyway, after the flop, I could not put the villian on a hand that beat me.

- AA-TT and AK seemed unlikely as he probably would have raised/pushed at some point.

- 33 might call the first raise, but not the second.

- Would KQ/KJ/KT suited or unsuited smoothcall two reraises preflop? Maybe.

So I thought there was a very good chance I was ahead here. Villian probably had a small-medium pair or some sort of suited/connecter/two-broadway hand.

So I bet 500. Villian thinks for a bit and pushes.

So same questions.

What hands do we put the villian on and do we call?

[JFJB]

Why bet about half of your remaining stack? Bet it all. This situation sucks but I call. Small pocket pair, suited connectors in heart some strange K.

[redCashion]

I disagree, I don't want to go out of the tourney this early with two overcards on the board. I like the bet 500 and fold to any more action line, having 600 left isn't great but its 30BB and you can pick some spots and try to get your stack back.

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
Normally I'd call the button miniraise. I reraised only because it was the 2nd hand of the tournament. Because of the weak players and bad play you see at these stages, I thought there was a very good chance I had the best hand and could get one of the three players to come along with a worse hand. If the button put me all-in, that would suck because I'd have the pot odds to call. But I did think a possibility was that the button would fold and one of the other two would do something foolish. A three-way all-in pot against AK and 99 would be great.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you're willing to call a shove in this spot preflop after you 3-bet I think you're better off just shoving after the reraise in the first place.

Against good players this advice would suck since you're only getting called when you're behind but in these 20x180's I believe a lot of players will come along with medium pairs and overcards.

As played I think you've put too many chips in to fold to his shove. I haven't gone back to calculate the pot odds but I think you're getting better than 4-to-1 so you only need to be ahead 20% of the time to breakeven on the call.

Without a specific read to the contrary I'm not even wasting any time putting villain on a range I'm going to assume you're ahead 20% of the time and put the rest in.

[Solitare]

Yeah, I wasn't happy with the 500 bet for the reasons stated.

Normally I'd shove rather than betting half my stack, but I though a shove would chase away some hands I'm beating that might come along if I only bet half the pot.

I think the call is pretty easy, as Jbrochu stated. Pot odds are less than 20% and I thought there was easily a 20% chance I was ahead (including the chance that I'd hit my two-outer). I expected to see KQs, but had enough hope for something else.

As it turned out, the villian had 77 and my JJ held up.

I posted because I wasn't really happy with any of my plays here, although results orientation says I'm a genius.

The one thing I know for sure was that my 400 reraise preflop was bad. It just got me in trouble later on, making tough, pot odds based decisions on a bad flop for all my chips early in the tournament. I do think that it being the 2nd hand of a $20 tournament provides some justification for the preflop reraise. But the way the hand went is pretty clear reminder not to make that play in a normal situation.

[Shes92]

I really wouldnt have put the villain on that hand. The action was too strong preflop. I know the raises werent huge but he had a preflop raiser still to act behind him. As such I thought he had AK, AQ or TT+. Regarding your preflop play I think that a shove is a viable option as is a call. I think I prefer the shove later in the tourney but a call at this early stage as I dont want to go bundling out of a tourney so early with JJ esp when there has been a PF reraise.

Villains flop play - WTF??