Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > PL/NL Texas Hold'em > Full Ring

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-01-2007, 05:51 PM
RyanCMU RyanCMU is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Folding Split Pots
Posts: 2,627
Default 200nl - 67s, gross turn semi-bluff shove?

Villain is 20/14/5 over 100 hands. He has min raised preflop a few times, however, he hasn't shown down any hands, hes been fairly active postflop. No history.

PF and Flop are both probably gross, but, meh...

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (MP2): $329
CO: $189.10
BTN: $106.40
SB: $58.25
BB: $276.60
UTG: $242.85
UTG+1: $200
MP1: $197

Pre-Flop: 6 7 dealt to Hero (MP2)
UTG calls $2, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $2, <font color="red">Hero raises to $10</font>, 3 folds, BB calls $8, UTG calls $8, MP1 calls $8

Flop: ($41) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 (4 Players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $30</font>, BB calls $30, 2 folds

Turn: ($101) J (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $58</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $289 and is All-In</font>,

How bad is this turn shove?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-01-2007, 06:02 PM
CalledDownLight CalledDownLight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: burning money in non-ring games
Posts: 4,541
Default Re: 200nl - 67s, gross turn semi-bluff shove?

I think the whole hand is played well.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-01-2007, 06:22 PM
nickcee nickcee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: @ the coffee shop
Posts: 170
Default Re: 200nl - 67s, gross turn semi-bluff shove?

Your turn bet looks convincing. You should have good turn fold equity. Nice hand.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-01-2007, 06:31 PM
Jeff76 Jeff76 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,268
Default Re: 200nl - 67s, gross turn semi-bluff shove?

After the pf raise, which is fine, this seems like a fairly straightfoward line. NH. I hope you got there. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-01-2007, 08:01 PM
Albert Moulton Albert Moulton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Live Full Ring NLHE
Posts: 2,377
Default Re: 200nl - 67s, gross turn semi-bluff shove?

This is a wet flop with an ace on it, hero has a deceptive up and down straight draw in last position, and there are 3 players to the flop. I usually check behind here to take a free card. If I hit a non-heart straight vs somebody with a set or 2-pair or big draw who tried to c/r the flop, I can win a lot at no extra cost this way. And I just don't think I usually have enough fold equity to cb here into 3 people.

As played, I probably call the turn donk bet getting just shy of 3:1 pot odds with possibly as many as 15 outs, but many of those outs are suspicious if villain appears to like them as much as we do (i.e. a T gives and Qx, like AQ, a higheer straight). But we act last. And we can call, or fold or bet based on the river card and what this aggressive post-flop player chooses to do with it.

I don't like pushing as much as just calling for the pot odds. Villain probably has something good, but less than a set or 2-pair since he'd probably lead or c/r the flop with those. Hands like AK/AQ/AJ/AT make sense for villain, but if he has AdQd, any AJ, or AdTd then he's not folding to the push and you are a big underdog. Vs the other Top-pair hands, you have probably good fold equity, but it's hard to say if it's enough.

I don't think pushing is bad, I just think I'd prefer to take the free card on the flop, and then take the pot odds on the turn rather than go for the fold equity with a push.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-01-2007, 08:03 PM
SABR42 SABR42 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: LAGing it up
Posts: 5,155
Default Re: 200nl - 67s, gross turn semi-bluff shove?

I think checking flop is usually better.

As played turn is good though.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-01-2007, 08:21 PM
RyanCMU RyanCMU is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Folding Split Pots
Posts: 2,627
Default Re: 200nl - 67s, gross turn semi-bluff shove?

Ok, if we look at his calling range of our turn shove I think its something like this? { 99-88, AdQd, AJs-ATs, QTs, JTs, Jh8h, Th8h, T7s, 7h6h, AJo-ATo, QTo, T7o }. Anyone think its wider or conversly more narrow? Anyone, think this range is too unrealistic, as in he can't have any of these hands?


I didn't include A8, A9, 89, J8 into his turn calling range, I felt these hands are marginal, and I might be getting folds from them. Obviosuly, adding them to the range, cahnges our equity somewhat.

Furthermore, Axdd, I didn't really know if I should include these hands into his range, because I'm not sure if he calls w/ them on the flop, Idk? Again, if we add these to his range, our equity shrinks even more again [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Vs. the above proposed range we have only around 25% equity.


What other hands are in his turn donking range here, that are folding to our shove? THe above proposed 2pair hands sometimes, AQ(?), really weak FD's?

His agressive nature, and then his preflop and flop calls are puzzling, combined w/ the turn donk, I'm having a really hard time w/ a range here, that is played this way that folds to my turn shove.

I really hate my turn shove, I was expecting everyone to be bashing me for it. So now, Im super super confused.

Or is everyone agreeing w/ the shove because they weight hsi range so heavily towards weak flush draws and marginal hands that we are goign to be getting folds from?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-01-2007, 08:44 PM
BadBigBabar BadBigBabar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: the green elephant returns
Posts: 520
Default Re: 200nl - 67s, gross turn semi-bluff shove?

i think flop check &gt; bet
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-01-2007, 09:38 PM
Kos13 Kos13 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Purdue
Posts: 2,118
Default Re: 200nl - 67s, gross turn semi-bluff shove?

I'm going to throw out a vote for smooth calling the turn (as played). I'm not convinced you have a ton of FE here, as he's getting better than 2-to-1. I think you see a lot of two pairs and sets here that lead the turn to protect from the draws. I'm not even convinced you can get AK to fold since it's an unknown (and I assume this is from the weekend, when the donks never fold).

I don't think the turn shove is bad, but since he's sort of unknown, I'd prefer smooth calling the turn.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:15 PM
ASPoker8 ASPoker8 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Titletown (Boston, UF)
Posts: 13,738
Default Re: 200nl - 67s, gross turn semi-bluff shove?

preflop raise size is bad

check flop

as played, call turn
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.