50nl, extraction with flopped FH

[ShipitFMA]

Villian is unknown;

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

MP: $50
CO: $51.20
BTN: $57.45
Hero (SB): $96
BB: $62.70
UTG: $101.35

Pre-Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $2.50</font>, Hero calls $2.25, BB folds, UTG calls $2

Flop: ($8) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $5</font>, UTG folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $15</font>, Hero?????????????

[Hebel]

calls, check raises the turn. if hes on a diamond draw he may check behind as well, and you want him to get there.

[toddxlogan]

3 possibilities:

1) Just shove. Likely folds out AA and KK (maybe maybe maybe he does this with AK), but assuredly gets a stack from AQ, KQ, probably even JQ. Thats about the extent of villain's range right now, as far as I can see... this is a ballsy board for villain to be raising 88-JJ, but I guess it may be possible.

2) Call, donk turn. I think this line kind of sucks. Don't see any particular merit for it, except if villain has maybe AA and is the kind who can't fold to a single bet but might crap his pants to a c/r.

3) Call, CRAI on turn. The classic stackadonk. Collects the maximum from hands that might fold to a flop 3-bet but are willing to put in another bet on the turn, and still stacks AQ and KQ, probably JQ as far as I can see. Don't think the turn c/r looks much scarier to an unknown than a flop 3-bet, and the turn c/r line adds in an extra bet from the opponent when they are still folding to your shove.

Conclusion: stackadonk. Call, CRAI on turn. IMO.

[Schiester]

I'm inclined to call this flop planning to b/3bet AI any non-diamond turn / c/c any diamond turn. His range here could be anything from low pps through JJ,KK,AA / AK(d) / AQ / KQ. I can't see anything but a queen pushing you off this hand come the turn. No sense in chasing him off this flop while you're this far ahead of his range imo.

[toddxlogan]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm inclined to call this flop planning to b/3bet AI any non-diamond turn / c/c any diamond turn. His range here could be anything from low pps through JJ,KK,AA / AK(d) / AQ / KQ. I can't see anything but a queen pushing you off this hand come the turn. No sense in chasing him off this flop while you're this far ahead of his range imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why donk the turn? Just scares away hands that are murdered. Why not let said hands hang themselves with another bet? Its not like a hand that is willing to raise ANOTHER turn donk isn't going to be turn c-betting to us again...right?

[whiteladder81]

I would rep the fd and push. If it was a rb flop I would call.

[Schiester]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm inclined to call this flop planning to b/3bet AI any non-diamond turn / c/c any diamond turn. His range here could be anything from low pps through JJ,KK,AA / AK(d) / AQ / KQ. I can't see anything but a queen pushing you off this hand come the turn. No sense in chasing him off this flop while you're this far ahead of his range imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why donk the turn? Just scares away hands that are murdered. Why not let said hands hang themselves with another bet? Its not like a hand that is willing to raise ANOTHER turn donk isn't going to be turn c-betting to us again...right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like donking when deep to build a pot vs. crai. The reason I would consider this on the board above is that it can look like I'm trying to get a cheap river (i.e. blocking) while chasing my draw.

As a result, if he's still as keen on his hand as he was on the flop, I'm likely to extract more through him raising than I am from him betting after I check. This way he is more likely to be pot committed with an overpair / trips.

I see your logic but I've been getting value out of hands like this of late by donking small... imo people with reasonable hands at &gt;50nl seem to see small donk bets as a sign of weakness.

Please comment if you don't like this.

[Khumalo]

I'm with Schiester, not that some of the other lines proposed aren't also good.

Tank on flop, then call. Donk any turn for $5 (or something equally offensive), get raised by a huge range. Tank/shove all turns and/or 'reluctantly' call diamond turns, then lead small or CR river depending on flow/reads.

[BevillTheDevil]

I kinda feel like a fish for thinkin this but i like a minraise. If you push you could maybe get folds from JJ,KK,AA and draws. If you wait until the turn if another diamond hits if villian is decent that could kill your action from Qx hands and JJ+. If you minraise your def gettin called/pushed by Qx hands, your givin villian good odds to either call/push a lone flush draw and i think even JJ+ is having trouble foldin there. I really doubt i would have thought of this at the table but for some reason i like it...tbh though any line isnt bad as long as your not foldin [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Check_The_Nuts]

yeah I also min3bet. holla! :-)