50nl, KK hand 200bb+ deep - Page 3

Chomp · #21 10-21-2007, 01:34 PM

I generally agree Matrix, but this bit confuses me:

[ QUOTE ]
we don't close the action - SB can yet re-raise and then we are in a [censored] spot and have to fold (this will almost never happen tho unless he has the goods)

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this a con? The opposite is the case IMO - I think this is yet another reason to flat and I'd be fine getting it in if SB shoved.

I can go either way preflop. HU, I'd be slightly more likely to flat, 3-way 4b. But looking at villain's stats, I think a 3b loses too much value.

Flop, I think we need to raise to trap the pairs between 8's and Q's.

thing85 · #22 10-21-2007, 01:56 PM

I love to shove on this flop. You will occasionally see AA but will very often see 99-QQ (and a very rare split with KK). So many LAGs see this flop and are like "OMG I HAVE OVERPAIR" instacalling an all-in (they would never fear the 8 because the 8 tries to extract more value and probably only pushes on the turn).

This guy is LAGy and he 3-bets with a lot of hands. Your shove all-in keeps away the draws and extracts maximum value from the over-pairs below KK. Maybe this is a bit aggressive, but if you let this go to a turn card, there are a lot of cards you don't want to see that make your decision a lot more difficult.

ICMoney · #23 10-21-2007, 02:09 PM

A PSR would be to $58.

I make it $50 and play for stacks.

I would also play a draw, combo or set the same way if I got to the flop like we did.

Profish2285 · #24 10-21-2007, 02:13 PM

I feel like today is the day I agree with everything ICMoney is saying, but he hit it right on the head.

ICMoney · #25 10-21-2007, 02:17 PM

One thought I just had:

I'm not sure how this reraise thing works on FT.

If you raise to $50 and the SB pushes, he wouldn't have double to raise. So will BB and you just have to option to call/fold or will BB be able to reopen the betting and shove over you?

You would have to raise to $42 instead of 50 to give the BB the option to reopen the betting if that's the case.

I think this flop is a must-raise.

Do we want to get it in here or raise and then get it in on a safe turn?

If this was a 4b pot I think straight/flush draws would be less likely but they are in the range now.

Obv this sb pushing and then bb pushing will prob be a fairly rare case. Maybe we should just focus on the big stack?

Thoughts?

ajml · #26 10-21-2007, 02:21 PM

Rather than give my own crappy reply I'd recommend reading Pokey's post in this thread which covers this hand preflop pretty much perfectly.

ICMoney · #27 10-21-2007, 02:28 PM

Pokey suggested calling pfr and calling down on F/T/R but hero had KK on a Qxx dry flop.

bozzer · #28 11-01-2007, 11:55 AM

i raise flop and am happy getting it in.

monkeymaps · #29 11-01-2007, 12:03 PM

just for the sake of discussion for those saying dont 4 bet do you ever 4 bet with anything besides aces? or just dont 4 bet ever?

cause if im not 4 betting here than im not with aces either cause its just too transparent.

guess what I am asking is if your not 4 betting here what spots are you 4 betting in? (im not saying that 4betting is >than flatting here just curious)

Hail Eris · #30 11-01-2007, 12:10 PM

I 4bet to $17 because that is what I do with air and AK. If you don't 4bet light, and never really 4bet much at all, I would still go ahead and 4bet here just because the stacks are deep. Probably more to like $22.

As played, you got a good flop and you should raise and stack off.