JJ OOP, 3-bet pot 4 ways.....and mayhem ensues

[Worm75]

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $25.30
SB: $48.10
BB: $18.55
Hero (UTG): $49.25
CO: $57.10

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $6.75</font>, BTN calls $6.75, SB folds, BB calls $6.25, Hero calls $4.75

Flop: ($27.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $11.80 and is All-In</font>, Hero calls $11.80, <font color="red">CO raises to $50.35 and is All-In</font>, BTN calls $18.55 and is All-In, Hero???

And we have some shenanigans from the CO, which when I called I was worried about.

Obv, as I replied in an earlier post shoving this flop with the CO still to act is beyond horrible, we fold out AK/AQ/TT and only get called by hands that beat us.

Folding is just as bad, since we could very well have the best hand at this point.

I think calling was the only option, but I wasn't in love with it.

Now CO has shoved over the top of us, and been called by the last short stack....while I felt this was obv at the table, curious to see your opinions.

[bknollenberg]

you think calling was the only option, but you and i know why that is. as we talked about, in this spot you are either drawing to 2 outs or drawing very thin. it's unlikely that three opponents are going to table 77, 88, and 99 all at once. if you're ahead of all three players, which is unlikely in most situations here, you're probably going to need to dodge enough cards to make it a flip.

again, i'd say you're rarely ahead, and if you are you're flipping. you can't flat call the turn push, too, so i would say you either fold or raise, either option will save you some stress after the rest of the players have fun playing the ultimate schizophrenic-aggressive style (SAG).

[bazooka87]

Well now I'm definitely folding. The only AK/AQ he could be shoving here are hearts, you have to be well below his range here

[LiveNow]

don't call the first bet without a plan, thats just silly. If you call the first bet, you have to be prepared for a CO shove...pretty easy fold, you're never ahead.

[Worm75]

[ QUOTE ]
don't call the first bet without a plan, thats just silly. If you call the first bet, you have to be prepared for a CO shove...pretty easy fold, you're never ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you think that I didn't have a plan???? I posted the hand because I felt it was interesting, and something none standard with the shortstacks and the action after the flop.

Fwiw, I think it's a lot closer decision if the last shortstack doesn't call AI.

[LiveNow]

i never said you didn't. Just said it's dumb to call it without knowing how you'll react etc.

[Worm75]

Some results for those posting in the thread


Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $25.30
SB: $48.10
BB: $18.55
Hero (UTG): $49.25
CO: $57.10

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $6.75</font>, BTN calls $6.75, SB folds, BB calls $6.25, Hero calls $4.75

Flop: ($27.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $11.80 and is All-In</font>, Hero calls $11.80, <font color="red">CO raises to $50.35 and is All-In</font>, BTN calls $18.55 and is All-In, Hero folds

Turn: ($87.95) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($87.95) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $87.95 Pot ($3 Rake)
BTN showed 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a full house, Fours full of Nines) and WON $84.95 (+$59.65 NET)
BB showed A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a full house, Fours full of Sixes) and LOST (-$18.55 NET)
CO showed K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Fours) and LOST (-$25.30 NET)

[willyc]

Do you still have that time machine?

[creamfillin]

I think you played this well. Nh.

[Khumalo]

OP, I hope the lesson you take from this hand (regardless of the holdings people showed down here) is that it's better to c/f a non-J flop than invest 35% of your stack OOP just to see what everybody else does and *then* decide whether or not to commit the rest. Yes, you're getting 4:1 when BB shoves, but you're also crossing the commitment threshold (and without even the benefit of seeing what your more substantial opponents are going to do.)

To be honest, if I talk myself into calling BB's shove (for whatever reason) and suddenly wake up to CO and BTN's all-ins, I just kind of sigh and call, because now I've (unhappily) placed myself into a pot-odds situation where folding seems a slightly greater evil than calling.