COMMERCE 1/2. 9Ts. RIVER PLAY?

[3rdCheckRaise]

He doesn't have to hit to beat us. There is a ton of hands that will call a river bet but wont bet themself. We only have bottom 2 on the board where even middle two may have issues betting...

[SLEEPER]

First off, I don't know why you would raise with 910 suited into a loose player, but I don't know your situation that well.... as for the river play, I think the only hands that you beat and are calling a bet here are AQ and maybe AJ. Either way, any hand that he calls with and you beat, was misplayed by him. Also, he checked to see if he had a heart after he checked? That seems kind of strange.... I would definetely check this river, as you are going to get raised by a better hand more often that you are going to get called by a worse hand.

Sleeper

[Schneids]

Bet/fold.

You know PF is standard, so yeah, whatever to those saying fold.

Flop is good. I like waiting till the turn to make sure it's not a heart.

Turn is standard.

River I think he can payoff with plenty of hands... Tx (with or w/o heart), Ah9, etc. The point is you don't think this guy is likely to be someone who plays that great, so, I think he's most likely to check/call lots of one pair hands and look you up. I don't think he c/r bluffs that often, even though I bet a fair share of the time he has the Kh in his hand.

[amulet]

with all due respect because i like your posts, preflop is a mistake in most cases. it is only correct in specific games vs specific opponents. you only have T high, a hand that plays well multi-way, but not vs a single or 2 opponents. you have position which is the only good thing about your situation. raising here with mid suited connectors (and low pairs) cost you money over time, and are a leak in many solid players games.

[Schneids]

Position and initiative are usually enough vs not great opposition. If the blind plays bad (as flawless believes is likely) T9s is way more than enough hand to make it playable. I'm on my laptop and don't have PT otherwise I'd go to button steals with T9s and those type of hands and pull up numbers that show it is +EV (and this against blinds who are likely tougher players than the blinds flawless was facing).

[amulet]

i respect your posts, but i think this advice is way off for most players. most need to fold T9s here.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
with all due respect because i like your posts, preflop is a mistake in most cases. it is only correct in specific games vs specific opponents. you only have T high, a hand that plays well multi-way, but not vs a single or 2 opponents. you have position which is the only good thing about your situation. raising here with mid suited connectors (and low pairs) cost you money over time, and are a leak in many solid players games.

[/ QUOTE ]

raising here w/ T9s is standard. but i would like to just point something out b/c many dont know you.

amulet is a very respected poster who, imo, happens to be on the tighter side.

that being said, whenever i do happen to disagree w/ amulet, its a spot like this.

to amulet, in this spot, what is your full range to open on the button?

Barron

[LarsVegas]

I will agree to one thing, you won't lose much by folding T-9s on the button when it's folded to you. If someone offered 0.1 big blinds to fold the hand, I would probably advice most players to take it.

But if T-9s if an EV- hand for someone to open with on the button, I advice them to find another hobby, or at very least, another game.

In addition to being to mid-high+ cards that are likely to flop you top or second pair, you hold a premium drawing hand.

However, Amulet, your posts serve as something of a wake-up call for me. In my games, admittedly a lot lower, where I should be significantly better than the opposition, I would routinely open-raise T-9s from the cutoff too, and be closer to open-raising it from the hi-jack than folding it on the cutoff. However, I used suitedness a lot to mix up my play, and play most all of my Q-J, Q-T, J-T, J-9, T-9 and T-8 combinations when suited. Does this matter at all?

I'd like to hear more thoughts on this from you or others.

Lars

[flawless_victory]

the game was not "tough"
neither of the blinds were good players

[Steve Giufre]

Amulet I also like your posts, and even though your advice isnt always standard its obvious you can play, and have a real good understanding of the game. However Im pretty sure you are way off on this one. Im gonna look at some stats when I get home, but most of the best players I know are opening with many hands that are much worse than 109s when folded to them on the button. Besides the fact that the hand defintely shows a profit, I think having such a small opening from range LP would make you too exploitable VS good aggresive players in the blinds.

Throw in the fact that the blinds play poorly and folding becomes an even bigger mistake IMO.