5/10 online. J6s flops draw, get a freebie or get it in?

[AZK]

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FV,

the real question is, why did you 4bet preflop without a plan?

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wtf

[AZK]

I talked with FV about this hand, I don't think QQ stabs on the turn, so he might even get to the river for free, no? Plus for some reason whenever I do something like this I get looked up by QQ all in on the flop pretty often (i know, it's pretty sad), but if I check the flop and bet the turn QQ folds. Also don't underestimate the willingness of a lot of donkeys to call that 4bet or wahtever preflop with AK and then go broke on a K high flop. I feel like everytime I pull some [censored] like this they always call with AK and bust me because I'm sitting there thinking "damnit, don't you read 2+2, fold AK to the reraise preflop."

[KingNeo]

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The problem is that if you check behind and whiff the turn, any bet he makes on the turn is going to he uncallable because his shallow stack in comparison to the pot gives no implied pot odds, and you will have no fold equity. Basically, any bet he makes on the turn is going to be a push, and you can't call the push without a made hand.

Push now.

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Agreed. However, even though I agree with this I still think you are up against AA or KK an overwhelming majority of the time. Hmm, seems like a push might not be great idea after all.

[9cao]

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folded to me on button i open Jd6d (my image is LAG), sb(950) who is tightish TAG player and seems decent (sry no PT stats) repots to 115. BB folds and I decide to raise again making it 290 str8, he pauses and calls.

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I know I am going to sound like a nit but what is up with the preflop? You say you have LAG image and SB is tightish TAG. Then your 4-bet gives him 2.4 to 1. Then to compound this, if he calls, he will easily be able to talk himself into a call given stack sizes.

Also, are there not around 50 other hands we would rather have in this spot then just some suited junk so why this particular hand in this spot?

As played I would push flop all day for two reasons. I think you do have decent FE equity against all non AA, KK, AK hands and I also think there is a lot of value in showing this hand when called.

[AZK]

nitnitnitnitnitnitnitnit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Big_Jim]

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I really think a push is in order to win the pot against QQ-JJ.

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I think people are both over-estimating the likelyhood that he has QQ-JJ, and the likelyhood of him folding them.

[amoeba]

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I really think a push is in order to win the pot against QQ-JJ.

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I think people are both over-estimating the likelyhood that he has QQ-JJ, and the likelyhood of him folding them.

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agreed. also, QQ-JJ are not going to push the turn just because you checked the flop.

[Big_Jim]

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You need to see two cards

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Why?

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We've got a draw, lots of dead $ & repped a big hand.

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We repped a big hand, but I don't think he folds NEARLY often enough for a push to be profitable, in and of itself.

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If a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hits I don't think more $ is making it's way into to the pot

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Hahahaha. Come on now. Pretty fckin' tough to put us on a flush draw, with the PF action.

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Further, a brick falls we are going to pay near pot to draw to the last card?

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No, probably not. Not unless an 8 or 4 rolls off, anyway.

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Do you simply give up after the 3-b to 290 pf?

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Yup.

[thabadguy]

I dont like a push here, i agree with azk that whenever the [censored] I try to pull this i get looked up, mainly because of my image.

[ggbman]

If you push and got called 100% of the time, it would be skightly -EV. I'm not going to do the exact math, but if he has TT, JJ, and QQ in his range, which he should some of the time given your image, he definitly might fold these, making this a pretty straightforward push IMO. He would have to fold something like 10% of the time? That seems good to me.