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  #1  
Old 11-30-2007, 08:34 AM
maca9 maca9 is offline
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Default AA hands - 2 big losses - am i playing badly here??

Would like some advice on these hands I lost tonight.

Have I played bad here?

Please see results below each hand in white to see villian holding if interested.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Button ($36.95)
SB ($17.90)
BB ($25)
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($34)
Hero ($53.50)
MP2 ($25.35)
CO ($18.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, MP2 calls $1, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3.10) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, MP2 folds, BB calls $3.

Turn: ($9.10) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $8</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $21</font>, Hero calls $13.

River: ($51.10) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $51.10

<font color="white"> Villian pocket 5's </font>


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

UTG+1 ($20.80)
MP1 ($12.15)
MP2 ($56.30)
CO ($4.40)
Button ($25.90)
Hero ($27.45)
BB ($25.25)
UTG ($12.20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $0.75</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2.25</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $2, MP1 folds.

Flop: ($5.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $18.55</font>, Hero calls $14.05.

Turn: ($42.60) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: ($42.60) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $42.60



<font color="white"> Villian 6d 3d </font>
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  #2  
Old 11-30-2007, 08:51 AM
zyrrth zyrrth is offline
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Default Re: AA hands - 2 big losses - am i playing badly here??

[censored] happens

raise more preflop in hand 2
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2007, 08:52 AM
AlexB182 AlexB182 is offline
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Default Re: AA hands - 2 big losses - am i playing badly here??

Hand 1: c/c, c/rrai is so often a monster. With what hand would he call PF, then just flat call a PSB on the flop and then shove over your 2nd PSB on the turn? I don't see any hand playing that way except villain is a complete donk. As you did not mention that, I think it's tough to continue here.
Hand 2: on paired boards, the chances someone hit his set are smaller, simply because there is only one unpaired card on the board. Of course he could have 65, but I don't think he would raise those PF. Therefore I think call in hand 2 is absolutely ok...
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:14 AM
PLAYOFFS PLAYOFFS is offline
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Default Re: AA hands - 2 big losses - am i playing badly here??

Hand 1: I think you are committed on the turn after you lead out. I like a c/c there, but sometimes you will get it all in no matter what.

Hand 2: Push after he raises on the flop!
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:59 AM
Jeff76 Jeff76 is offline
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Default Re: AA hands - 2 big losses - am i playing badly here??

In hand 1 I think you are betting too much on the flop and turn. It's a fairly dry board (he could be drawing with 78s, but that's about it) so you are in a WA/WB situation. Your best case scenario is to be up against AQ, and he'll probably call a bet with a hand like JJ/TT, but usually not stack off. Since AQ probably doesn't stack off either, you aren't looking to play for stacks here- you want to get the most value from the hands he'll call with. If you think he'll call 3 smallish bets with a hand like AQ, then try that. Another line is to check behind on the turn and then represent a big bluff on the river, which JJ will probably pay off. I'd bet $2 on the flop and probably about 1/2 pot on the turn or even check behind planning to value bet 3/4 or a PSB on the river. With smaller bet amounts you can get away on the turn if he c/r you, because very few players at this level c/r the turn as a bluff or something as weak as AQ.

I always am thinking about what hands I think will call and how much they will call. Even though on this flop you likely have the best hand, the only part of his range you should expect to get stacks in with is the part you are behind. Smaller bets will make this less likely to happen and get better value from underpair hands like JJ, who will have difficulty calling PSBs on multiplel streets.


Hand two is a totally different story. Your hand is very strong for this action and this board. People very rarely re-raise with full houses or trips on paired boards, so you can call pretty confidently ahead of his range. Even if he didn't move all in, you should be ready to.
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:11 AM
maca9 maca9 is offline
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Default Re: AA hands - 2 big losses - am i playing badly here??

Hi Jeff76

Thanks for the comments.

So when you say the bets are too much you mean if they were behind me they wouldn't call AND since they did call the bigger bets then they are prob ahead.

I guess AQ would call flop bet but not reraise the turn bet.

So as played (with bigger bets from me) i should have realised i'm behind???


And if i played same situation with smaller bets I give myself the chance to have worse hands calling AND don't lose as much if I flod the turn to his reraise???

Have I understood that?


Also if a fulsh draw was on board would you then need to bet more in line with what I did?




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  #7  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:17 AM
AlexB182 AlexB182 is offline
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Default Re: AA hands - 2 big losses - am i playing badly here??

[ QUOTE ]



I just don't understand how the smaller bets would have prevented me losing here once the action started from villian.

[/ QUOTE ]

The smaller bets do not help you NOT losing the pot, they help you either lose less here or to win at least a decent amount from a hand that you beat and that could not call two PSBs here.
BTW: Good post, Jeff.
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:26 AM
maca9 maca9 is offline
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Default Re: AA hands - 2 big losses - am i playing badly here??

Thanks Alex.

I have edited my reply - hopefully that is more in line with what you guys are saying.

CHeers
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:31 AM
Jeff76 Jeff76 is offline
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Default Re: AA hands - 2 big losses - am i playing badly here??

It's possible that you could have gotten away depending on the action. On this board, a crai on the turn usually means you're beat.

But the point is not how to avoid getting stacked. The point is how to get appropriate value from your hand. The question you have to ask yourself when you see a flop and you have an overpair or TPTK kind of hand is "if villain has a hand he is willing to get it all in with on this board, do I expect to have the best of it?" If the answer is "no", you want to take steps to avoid building the bot so big that you are committed to getting it all in, because when that happens you'll be in bad shape.

When you hear people talk about SPR (stack to pot ratio), this is what it's all about. Your SPR in hand 1 is 8 (villain has 8x the pot on the flop). So the question is, will he put in 8 times this pot on this board with a hand worse than AA? It isn't likely that he will. With an overpair you can expect people to put in about 4 or 5x the pot with a worse hand; beyond that and they aren't sticking around without a hand that is probably better than yours.

Since we recognize that villain will probably only put in 4 or 5x the pot with a hand like AQ or JJ, betting the pot on every street isn't necessary. In fact, JJ might put in 4x the pot, but it probably isn't doing it with you potting every street. He'll need to get a sense somewhere that you are weak. That's why checking behind on the turn might be most effective here.

Now let's say the pot was twice as much- you guys managed to get it to $6 instead of 3. Now your SPR is around 4 and you should be looking to build the pot as quickly and aggressively as possible. Why? Because villain will put in his full stack with a much wider ranger of hands now. He won't have a chance to get away once he realizes you really are strong. So while he still might have a set and AQ,JJ etc. in his range, you'll see AQ and JJ more often when all the chips go in.
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  #10  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:39 AM
Jeff76 Jeff76 is offline
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Default Re: AA hands - 2 big losses - am i playing badly here??

Heh, you changed your post so I'll respond to some of your other comments:

[ QUOTE ]
So as played (with bigger bets from me) i should have realised i'm behind???

[/ QUOTE ]As played, you really have committed yourself to the pot. You are getting almost 3 to 1 on your call, which means you only have to be good 25% of the time to making calling profitable. I don't think any tell of "CRAI on the turn is not a bluff or AQ" is strong enough to fold getting those kinds of odds. But you should realize when you make that turn bet that you are not folding.

[ QUOTE ]
Also if a fulsh draw was on board would you then need to bet more in line with what I did?

[/ QUOTE ]A flush draw changes the dynamic, but a lot depends on villain's tendencies. It's not a simple answer. Your line MIGHT be more appropriate or even optimal on such a board if you've seen him call big bets with draws and not slow play his sets on draw heavy boards. If he is the kind to slow play his sets no matter what the board, you still may play a little more reserved.

A more draw heavy board makes your decisions more complicated.
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