Pls Help Me Learn From This Hand

[KStV]

With apologies for not using a hand converter, I was hoping for some help learning from the following hand-->

Final table of small tournament (Full Tilt). 7 players left-- last hand at 200-400. I have 6,500 chips and 3 others have between 4K and 7K. There are 3 big stacks with 40K-50K. Folds to me in the SB with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I complete the blind. Big Stack in the BB checks and we flop K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I check and BB bets 800. I re-raise all-in. BB shows K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Turn is A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and River is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

I'm a complete novice so I would welcome any thoughts, insights, advice, etc., even if very basic.

[KenProspero]

Help us a little here -- what are the payouts?

Specifically, what does 7th pay, what does 4th pay, what does 1,2,3 pay.

Your situation, unless you make a major move, you're playing for fourth.

1. I don't love your pre-flop call. In fact, I rarely, if ever like just calling when it's been folded around to SB. If you're going to play against the stack, raise. Get him to fold his garbage now, rather than letting him hit something. If he has a real hand, he'd probably raise you anyway. Are you going to fold ATs? If not, bet it out. I think make it 1500 to go probably works, maybe a touch more.

2. Post flop -- Don't check. Your probably ahead, but can't afford to give a free card.

Let's think about what villian may be holding. AK, AQ, or AJ (maybe a little less, even), and he probably raises pre-flop, so you're probably ahead, unless he's holding something like K6. However, there are a lot of drawing hands that can hurt you, JT, J9, two clubs for example. Don't give the free card.

Your all-in bet. Ok, you knew you were going to be called, right? Based on the play, I'd figure you're a coin flip, maybe a bit better. (as it stands, he has 15+ outs -- 9 clubs, 2 kings, 3 queens, plus a little for the runner-runner straight), You have a few outs -- 5 outs (unless he hits a flush) plus a runner runner straight draw. I think you're an underdog as the cards lie.

However, even if you're a slight favorite -- if you lose, you finish 7th, and if you win, you still have an uphill battle for 3rd. I'm not saying you're wrong, but my guess is that this isn't the time to make your stand.

[KStV]

Thanks for your response. 7th place paid $40. I'm not sure what the rest of the pay-out structure was.

I felt that I needed to double up very soon to remain viable, but reading your post makes me realize that perhaps I should have been more focused on outlasting the other short stacks and maybe trying to double up through one of the big boys only if I caught a truly premium hand in a situation that would look like a desperate push.

I probably over-valued my hand both pre and post-flop. I thought about raising pre-flop but I figured he would just fold and I wanted/felt that I needed to get paid more. Post-flop I was downright in love with Aces and wanted to get all my chips in. With two scare cards on the flop, I thought he would fold to a bet, so I was hoping to either end it with my check-raise or, even better, get called. I wasn't even thinking about the danger of letting him see another card for free. My last thought before pushing the All-In button was that his calling range was probably fairly wide because of the relative stack sizes and blind situation, so I was probably facing a middle pair or weaker Ace.

As stupid as this makes me sound, I hadn't thought about the straight possibilities out there until I read your response. I was a little worried about the Club Flush, but reading your post it seems like I should have been more worried-- worried enough to stop giving him inexpensive options on seeing more cards.

Thanks again for your reply.

[KenProspero]

There's a lot to think about.

By the way, I'm not saying your all-in bet was wrong. Let's say 7th place pays $40 and 4th place pays $70, with $500 for first place. With the right cards, I'd probably take the shot at either playing for first or hanging around long enough for a favorable chop.

My point is that you have to know the payout structure at this stage of a tourneyment, because it may affect your decision. Also, if I'm going to go for it, I prefer to be more aggressive than you were.

Good luck at the tables.

[pzhon]

You both had big hands, both preflop and on the flop. You were about even when the chips went in. There wasn't a reasonable way for you to avoid losing all of your chips.

Preflop, I think you should raise. ATs isn't so great if you are in early position and there are 8 players who might find QQ after you. However, in blind versus blind situations, AT is a very strong hand. You can raise with a lot worse, particularly if there are antes, and against an opponent who knows to raise with a lot of hands, you can reraise with AT or call all-in.

People greatly overvalue survival. Folding all except monster hands in the hope to make the money or climb a place or two is a common, exploitable weakness. The value of survival mainly tells you to be cautious calling all-in, and it normally only raises your calling threshold by a few percent. You pushed rather than calling all-in here, so the value of survival has little effect here.

On the flop, you have a very strong hand, and should expect to be ahead the vast majority of the time, particularly since your opponent did not raise preflop. I think you should bet out to avoid giving someone a free card with a gutshot or a flush draw or bottom pair. If you think he will bet with nothing, though, check-raising will probably get more money in.

With a pair plus a flush draw, there is no way he was going anywhere, particularly because he can expect to be ahead much of the time. A pair+flush draw has 9 outs to improve to a flush, and 5 more to improve to trips or two pair beating top pair.

Your check-raise on the flop was slightly out of proportion to the size of the pot. If you called the bet of 800, the pot would be 2400, so your raise of abotu 5000 more chips was twice the size of the pot, giving your opponent about 3:2 odds. As an alternative, you could consider raising to about 2400, then putting the last 3500 in later, but raising all-in was not very dangerous. Raising all-in for 5 times the size of the pot would be much more dangerous; you would get paid off by fewer weaker hands while you still lose your stack most of the time against better hands.