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  #51  
Old 11-29-2007, 09:02 AM
Daddy Warbucks Daddy Warbucks is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
Going "busto" would definitely not be cool.

Hey.....
speaking of "cool"....
I heard that Brad Booth bought into that high stakes poker tv show with A Cool Million.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats it like having one joke?
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  #52  
Old 11-29-2007, 09:12 AM
eMbAh eMbAh is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

The REAL reason is they start playing me HU4rollz
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  #53  
Old 11-29-2007, 09:34 AM
g-p g-p is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
gotta get it gotta have it once i got it i'm a spend it then it's back to doing any damn thing just to get it.

AMIRITE?!?

[/ QUOTE ]
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeea
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  #54  
Old 11-29-2007, 10:51 AM
PLO8FaceKilla PLO8FaceKilla is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Going "busto" would definitely not be cool.

Hey.....
speaking of "cool"....
I heard that Brad Booth bought into that high stakes poker tv show with A Cool Million.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats it like having one joke?

[/ QUOTE ]
You are incorrect. I have 2 jokes now. Please scroll up to read the new one... I must admit though, i bought that last joke off my buddy for 100 play money chips on FTP.

Hey....
speaking of "bought"...
I heard that Brad Booth bought into that high stakes poker tv show with A Cool Million.
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  #55  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:12 AM
jeffnc jeffnc is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how about; poker is nearly impossible to beat long term? its gambling, brosephs. stu unger was a savant, he could beat the game. phil ivey, chip reese, etc, im awed by their ability and their stamina and their discipline but i guarantee you that they go broke just as fast as anyone else if the rivers dont go there way enough times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, one of the more clueless posts I've read in quite awhile.
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  #56  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:18 AM
jeffnc jeffnc is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
I realized i didn't complete explain my concept of the ceiling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm. I have to admit this is kind of interesting stuff that surprisingly I haven't heard mentioned anywhere else.
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  #57  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:19 AM
jeffnc jeffnc is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
warrant's analogy is flawed.

It may be true that poker players reach a ceiling above which they can't effectively use their bankroll (rolled for one level, have excess cash that they can't use to play the next level responsibly, because their edge there is too small is doesn't exist). But those players should simply find their level, play for income, and invest the excess in a market where they don't have that problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't mean his analogy is flawed at all. Go back to the original post, including the original title - "top" players.
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  #58  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:22 AM
jeffnc jeffnc is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

I would say that one reason is probably the fact that you put "top" in quotes. I believe there are many pros that we've never heard of and they make a fine living. However it's not the $10 mil per year high profile tournament living we might think of.

Having said that, there are probably some other pros such as Negreanu and Hellmuth who make smart business decisions - as someone else mentioned, they are low variance - such as sponsorhip deals. (Tiger Woods even knows there is less variance in this sort of income than in golf!)

A "top" pro, as you say, means.... what? You're calling them a "top" pro, which I assume means you know they might not be "top" after all, but are simply "famous" (for now, for some reason.)
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  #59  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:40 AM
Margaud Margaud is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]


The next factor is that if your treating your money and time spent at poker as an investment, than you'll be looking at your entire bankroll as your principle and trying to see how you grow it. Now the if you consider a poker player who has 1 million dollars, you want to grow it, well playing 25/50plo table and you win $5 000 so you now have $1 005 000 dollars. Congrats you just increased your bankroll by .5% so obv its kinda pointless so you step up to the 250/500plo tables and win $50 000, you just increase your bankroll by 5% now you feel like you have something in your pocket. However now your have 5% of your entire bankroll on the table and when you loose well it works a lot different from winning...you ever time you win 50k 250/500plo its not 5% anymore.
(going to use smaller amounts to make it easy)
100nl $2000br
win $100 = 2100br +4.7%
win $100 = 2200br +4.5%
win $100 = 2300br +4.3%

Now watch when you loose

loose $100 = 1900br -5.2%
loose $100 = 1800br -5.5%
loose $100 = 1700br -5.9%
loose $100 = 1600br -6.25%

So as can be seen the compounding works against you on the way up, you need to keep more money in play to keep the same size of returns, however, as you loose money you can't keep at the same level of play without threating larger and larger percentages of your bankroll each time you play.



[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very important point and one that exposes a flaw in the poker buy-in system.

As a former sports bettor, I'll explain one bankroll system that addresses the above problem. When making a sport wager, instead of betting on each game with a standard dollar amount, you bet a % of your entire bankroll. Say 1.5% for each game (other rules in the system control the amount of games you wager on and how much % of your total bankroll is at stake at any one time but that's not the point). By wagering a % of your bankroll, when you're winning, you win more and when you're losing you're losing less. It's all proportional.

With poker's typical 100bb buy-in, you cannot manage your roll the same way. The result is what warrant showed above.

Maybe using a % br system and playing 1 level up (not fully stacked) would allow for good br management.

Regarding the OP's question. I think the problem is that at low/mid stakes, there is still a wide range of skill level which is more profitable. The poker economy is a pyramid where all the cash goes to the top. The field of players at the high stakes level is much smaller and the difference in skill is not as wide. That means it's more of a gamble as your edges are smaller than it was at the lower games. More gamble + higher stakes is a recipe for bust.
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  #60  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:43 AM
Sniiii Sniiii is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 268
Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Going "busto" would definitely not be cool.

Hey.....
speaking of "cool"....
I heard that Brad Booth bought into that high stakes poker tv show with A Cool Million.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats it like having one joke?

[/ QUOTE ]
You are incorrect. I have 2 jokes now. Please scroll up to read the new one... I must admit though, i bought that last joke off my buddy for 100 play money chips on FTP.

Hey....
speaking of "bought"...
I heard that Brad Booth bought into that high stakes poker tv show with A Cool Million.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I supposed to say ''lol'' or something now? I'm confused.
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