Harrington's "M"... still a relevant and good concept?

[CianCrillz]

I have read HoH recently and he talks a about M "blinds divided by stack" and reading into another topic about Harrington's WPT win someone mentioned

"I'm not surprised. Most of the tournament hotshots ridicule his books and dismiss his play as "weak-tight". Just look at how obsolete, in the view of some, the whole concept of M has become."


I am just wondering what is the thinking behind M being now obsolete. Thanks.

[BulletsBlitz]

I'm just a noob, but, the idea of M being obsolete or irrelevant is preposterous. M, which is actually stack divided by the sum of blinds and 1 round of antes, is the most accurate measure of how much "play" is available to you and your opponents. In my opinion, it is the most crucial variable in any poker situation for determining the level of aggression or patience you can allow yourself to employ. It will never be obsolete any more than pot odds, or the fundamental theory of poker will become obsolete.

Not being able to see the context of the quote you provide, I can only assume that the speaker was perhaps referring to "red zone" inflection point play, where when your M falls below 5, your options become limited to push or fold. Perhaps that strategy is no longer as effective as it once was because it does not carry with it the fold equity it once did, now that the tactic has become part of conventional wisdom.

[Niediam]

In the forward section of the Full Tilt Tournament Guide the editor mentions that the Full Tilt pros thought very highly of Harrington and his books.

[CianCrillz]

I agree, I can't understand why M would ever become obsolete in tournament play, its a basic and fundamental tool which I assumed up to now everyone used... even without having ever read harrington

[Davdob]

M is the most relevant and good concept in the book for tournament play.

[Dalek]

M is still one of the most important concepts in Poker and always will be regardless of how people play. However, with Sit ,n, Goes being very popular and the blinds moving so fast the average stack has an M of less than 10 late in a tournament so there is less need to shove money in with J-8 suited for first in vigorish.

[Quicksilvre]

[ QUOTE ]
"I'm not surprised. Most of the tournament hotshots ridicule his books and dismiss his play as "weak-tight". Just look at how obsolete, in the view of some, the whole concept of M has become."

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind this was from NVG. 'Nuff said.

If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me. I have no clue why anyone would consider this concept obsolete (though I do think it's a little less original than some people think it is).

[riverruss]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"I'm not surprised. Most of the tournament hotshots ridicule his books and dismiss his play as "weak-tight". Just look at how obsolete, in the view of some, the whole concept of M has become."

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind this was from NVG. 'Nuff said.

If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me. I have no clue why anyone would consider this concept obsolete (though I do think it's a little less original than some people think it is).

[/ QUOTE ]
As basic tournie concept of course its not obsolete but,Harringtons colour zones probably are.
Harringtons books were written from the viewpoint of a B&M slow structure tourny player.Online tournies are almost all super fast structures when compared to the tournies Harrington uses as his examples in the books,so the blinds come round far quicker often increasing every orbit,so you need to be pushing far earlier than his zone concept states.

[pkbj1632]

Agree.
but there are not a fault of HOH, is the king of MTT that we play online.
There are NOT 1 hour blind levels in any site ( at least low/mid stakes)
That remind me when Snyder explain their "formula" for fast tournes, and then mason replys suporting "M", i have not link here, buy you can search it. Very good material on the original topic.

[[Phill]]

I own HoH 1, i never really read it, just didnt like it; but whilst i completely hate the term 'M', what it represents is one of the most key factors of play in tournament poker and that is the value of your stack relative to the cost of an orbit.