stud/8 - 5th street situation

[Alchemist]

Seat 5 is unknown. Seat 4 is a very bad and passive calling station.

I think 3-betting 5th is wrong. Getting it HU with the flush gains me nothing, especially with spades so dead. With my low pretty safe against the 866, shouldn't I just call the raise on 5th to encourage him to stay in?

7 Card Stud High-Low ($1/$2), Ante $0.20, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (2.60 SB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls

5th Street - (5.30 BB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___raises___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___folds

6th Street - (14.30 BB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets

River - (16.30 BB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___bets

Total pot: (18.30 BB - $36.60)

[djk123]

yea i don't like your 5th raise. unless he is really bad, seat 5 has a flush so you wanna keep seat 4 in. seat 4 will def call one more bet but fold for 2.

[Tha Stunna]

[ QUOTE ]
yea i don't like your 5th raise. unless he is really bad, seat 5 has a flush so you wanna keep seat 4 in. seat 4 will def call one more bet but fold for 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true; also relevant is that seat 5 could very well be freerolling you if he has even one unpaired low card 6 or lower in the hole. While I'd put in a third bet heads up, I'd back off pretty quickly after that, and with someone else in the pot that's another reason not to raise. (runner-runner flush outs don't really count for you)

[betgo]

What's with the flat calls on 6th and 7th????

[xxeximusxx]

I think third should usually be a raise, allthough calling is sometimes fine.

Out of all the hands you post i think your biggest fault is not raising third.

[Andy B]

I would probably complete on third. I wouldn't raise fourth if I thought that it would knock people out, but you got everyone to call, so I can't argue with that. Definitely three-bet fifth. There's no reason that the other guy has to have a flush. If the third man folds, that increases your scoop chances. And if the other guy does have a flush, the only way to really make any money off of the third man is to make him call a whole bunch of bets.

I also think that sixth is a raise. There's at least some chance that the other guy is a donk who is playing his board and not really thinking about what you have. If you really believe in your heart of hearts that he had a made flush on fifth, then he must specifically have A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the hole to be free-rolling on you. If he happens to have one diamond down but is free-rolling on you for low, it means that he called two bets cold in a tiny pot on fourth with a three-card flush and a three-card low. If he's bad enough to make this call, he's probably bad enough to have all kinds of things that you're free-rolling on. I think that it is far more likely that you have the upper hand than he. Get your money in there.

[Alchemist]

That he check-raised the field on 5th and capped vs my scary board, I don't see how he can't have a flush.

You're probably right about 6th, but once he caught yet another diamond I felt I was drawing dead for high and with outside chance I'm getting freerolled for low (he could also have A5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or 35[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] since we don't know the 5 is still in the stub).

Re: 6th and 7th
From his perspective, he has to know I have a low and very likely a straight, yet he keeps betting into me. Would he really do this without a flush? Consequently, he must have some kind of draw to a low as well since he doesn't really know the quality of my low hand. But he also doesn't care since he knows he has the high locked up.

Putting it all together, I concluded that he was freerolling me more often that I was him. Is this just paranoia on my part?

[Zagga]

I think it's good except that I would complete 3rd. That Qd on 6th definatly gives him a flush (5th he might be raising with a low draw and nut flush draw, althoughhe could very well have a flush there) and since you have no direct outs to a flush and he has two weel cards showing he is the one that might be freerolling you if he has two wheelcards in the hole (most likey with the Ad. So 6th and 7th are definatly not a raise.

[Bill King]

[ QUOTE ]
What's with the flat calls on 6th and 7th????

[/ QUOTE ]

wondering the same thing.. i wouldnt let him slide for 1 bet on 6th

[wheatrich]

lol 1/2 I'd cap this on fifth every time. Because it's now obvious he has a flush on sixth by now I'd probably just c/c the rest of the way b/c of the slight chance he's freerolling you for low. I can't expect people to fold to raises at these limits because they tend not to even with garbage hands at this point.