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#1
08-12-2007, 12:45 PM
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JTo otb in straddled hand
I don't play much live, so limited experience how to adjust play when there is a straddle, never seen one at 2-4 and I was playing 4-8 after winning at 2-4.
Question 1: Generally, do you play your hand as if the pot is raised, or just like it's just double stakes, like a kill pot. Obviously you adjust for the fact there is more likely to be gamboooling than usual. Live Foxwoods 4-8. BB and UTG both relatively new, but both have straddled the last few orbits, and are raising very light. Prior to this no one had straddled in the few hours I had been playing. UTG straddles, 5 calls, mostly loose passives, but one solid TAG in MP3. I have JTo otb. Question 2: I call right? If UTG had raised and 5 cold-called I would fold this, but with 6 limpers I would call, I think that's what I have to consider this situation, right? I call, SB folds, BB 3 bets. Question 3: In hindsight I should have thought about the fact there was about a 90% chance that was going to happen when determining if I should call. If I had, would it have changed my decison? UTG straddler caps, all call to me. Question 4: I have to call getting 8-1 otb in a capped pot, right? I call, Flop comes 9xx rainbow. BB bets, all call. I have only backdoor straight draw, 1.5 outs, maybe discount to one. But I'm getting ~39-1 so Question 5: I have to call, right? Turn brings 9xxQ, 2 diamonds. BB bets, all call, I call getting a million to one with 6 clean str8 outs. River is a Q, there's a bet and 4 callers, one of the loose passives in HJ or MP3 wins with pocket J's. 
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#3
08-12-2007, 02:05 PM
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Re: JTo otb in straddled hand
Unless you can surely isolate a straddler, leave JTo in the muck. Meaning, UTG straddles, all fold to you on button, you 3 bet or fold it since JTo against 1 random hand is a winner.
Now, if you figure BB is coming also and for more bets, o/s connectors, other than AKo, are in the muck. Don't take JTo to the flop in wild games. [ QUOTE ] Question 2: I call right? If UTG had raised and 5 cold-called I would fold this, but with 6 limpers I would call, I think that's what I have to consider this situation, right? [/ QUOTE ] No. Even though its a straddle, it IS a raise. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is equivalent to a limp. b
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#4
08-12-2007, 05:07 PM
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Re: JTo otb in straddled hand
[ QUOTE ]
No. Even though its a straddle, it IS a raise. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is equivalent to a limp. b [/ QUOTE ] Are you really suggesting that he fold JTo from the button after a straddle and a gaggle of limps?
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#5
08-12-2007, 05:10 PM
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Re: JTo otb in straddled hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No. Even though its a straddle, it IS a raise. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is equivalent to a limp. b [/ QUOTE ] Are you really suggesting that he fold JTo from the button after a straddle and a gaggle of limps? [/ QUOTE ] i would.
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#6
08-12-2007, 07:51 PM
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Re: JTo otb in straddled hand
I'm with chesspain here. With this many callers JTo from late position is a prime play for me. The raise by the BB does not affect things in any way. Hands like JTo you ae looking for volume, hoping to flop a straight or strong draw. JB
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#7
08-12-2007, 07:55 PM
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Re: JTo otb in straddled hand
[ QUOTE ]
I'm with chesspain here. With this many callers JTo from late position is a prime play for me. The raise by the BB does not affect things in any way. Hands like JTo you ae looking for volume, hoping to flop a straight or strong draw. JB [/ QUOTE ] the problem with this is you dont flop an OESD all that often and your pair cards are very weak and wont hold up against many opponents in a multiway pot. in addition, playing for only a straight is problematic as it can lead to you chopping the pot quite often even if you do hit. JTs on the other hand, adds considerably to your winning chances and is an easy call in this spot.
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#8
08-12-2007, 11:13 PM
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Re: JTo otb in straddled hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No. Even though its a straddle, it IS a raise. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is equivalent to a limp. b [/ QUOTE ] Are you really suggesting that he fold JTo from the button after a straddle and a gaggle of limps? [/ QUOTE ] You mean a gaggle of coldcalls. I would. b
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#9
08-12-2007, 11:18 PM
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Re: JTo otb in straddled hand
[ QUOTE ]
The raise by the BB does not affect things in any way. Hands like JTo you ae looking for volume, [/ QUOTE ] Really? Not in any way? It seems to affect the value of implied odds postflop a bit. JTo is a hand you want to see the flop cheaply with. It's not a great multiway hand and thrives on implied odds if you can get in cheap. Unless you think a betting structure of 1-1-2-2 is the same as 2-1-2-2. I guess with volume you're suggesting playing JTo in capped 7 way pots also? You don't play a hand using hoping to flop a str8 as a reasonable reason to play it. That's hoping for a miracle. b
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#10
08-13-2007, 03:46 AM
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Re: JTo otb in straddled hand
A big part of the problem is that it's not just 2 bets, you still have 2 players in the binds and a GAMB00L straddler who collectivly have a high chance of making this 3 bets. Once it goes 3, someone will put in that last bet because big pots are fun!
Yes, we'll play JTo here when it's a single bet and not feel too bad about the risk of it going 2 bets or having to fold for 2+ bets if we think QQ+ is out there. However, 7, 8 or even 9 way are we cool with JTo OTB in a capped pot against retarded opponents?
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