Play a Hand With the Masters #3 Turn

[Lloyd]

This is Part 3 of Play a Hand with the Masters #3. If you haven't already responded to Part 1 and Part 2 you should do so first.

Setup
$650 PokerStars Qualifier for the PokerStars Carribean Adventure (PCA)
9-Handed
Blinds 10/20
Hero is Strassa
No reads on villain

Stacks
Hero (CO) t2540
BB t3245

Pre-Flop
All fold to hero who has 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and raises to t80. Button and SB fold. BB calls t60.

Flop
Pot: t170

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks. Hero bets t140. BB raises to t300. Hero calls t160.

Turn
Pot: t770

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks. Action is on the hero.

Turn Questions

1) What do you make of the villain's check? What are you asking yourself / thinking about in order to make the best decision?

2) Any thoughts on a range of hands?

3) Do you check or bet? If you're betting, how much and what's your plan if he check-raises again? Do you have a plan for the river and if so, what is it?

[EnderW27]

I truly have to believe my hand is best right now, though extremely vulnerable. I don't think that Q could have helped him unless he had something like Q9 but even then, why check? There's a straight draw and a flush draw out there and he checks to me? If he had any strength here at all and thinks I'm still drawing he simply can't give me a free card.
Seriously, even if he currently has the nuts, I could be on a heart draw and I'll be more than happy to see the river without costing me anything more.

So I have to think he's trying to make a play to confuse into checking, fearing that check raise. He's the one drawing. He's the one who wants a free card. So let's charge him.

We can't give him odds here. This has to be AT LEAST a pot sized bet up to a push all-in. Though I think I like betting half my remaining stack of...what? 1100 at this point? Not only does it not give him odds to draw to whatever it is he's drawing, he doesn't really have the implied odds to call and he knows I'm committed at this point.

His range of hands I put on 88, TT, heart overcards (not including the Q), Ah9x. I just can't see two pair or a set not betting here. Even the 6-8 should be pushing something out into the middle.

[Ansky]

Im betting 500 and calling a push. I think the villain is checking out of fear, not as a trap.
He has a huuuuuge range, everything from a big semi bluff, to a set I'd say, or even a total bluff if hes that type of player.

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
Im betting 500 and calling a push. I think the villain is checking out of fear, not as a trap.
He has a huuuuuge range, everything from a big semi bluff, to a set I'd say, or even a total bluff if hes that type of player.

[/ QUOTE ]

i like what ansky said.

[jon_1van]

1) What do you make of the villain's check? What are you asking yourself / thinking about in order to make the best decision?

I'm not sure what to make of the check. It could easily be a player backing down after "testing" you preflop. Even though the test was pretty weak. It could also be a play with a made hand letting you hang yourself by representing the "failed bluff". Opponent could easily be think he could get another bet here from you...either when you take another stab on the turn...or when you call his river bet after you showed weakness.

I think we know pretty much nothing, without a read. And because it's early, we probably don't have a read....no read has been discussed.


2) Any thoughts on a range of hands?

Still seems to be pretty big.

3) Do you check or bet? If you're betting, how much and what's your plan if he check-raises again? Do you have a plan for the river and if so, what is it?

I bet 600 here. Because his flop cr doesn't really narrow his hand range..and I'm ahead of most hands I bet to avoid the free card.

Why do I feel like we are getting c/red again?

If we do get c/r I'll push over top. I can't really see folding after we get a "safe" card. And since his raise could have alot of draws....I push to charge them because I'll be calling any river bet because I'd be tied to the pot if I just called the turn c-raise.


All in all I don't think there's alot of value in this spot, which is why I would have tried to avoid it by raising..but we know not many agree with that approach.

[THEOSU]

My first reaction is that this is a very good card for me. Outside of Q9 or QQ, there are no hands I can put villain on that this card helps him. If I was ahead, I am still very likely to be ahead.

to answer your questions

1) The obvious answer to this question is that villain checked because he did not like this card. I'm thinking this is a good point to make villain tell me what he has with a good bet.

2) I have no real new information on villain's hand with the check, and probably won't until I gauge his response to my bet. Perhaps a pair of nines, perhaps a draw of some kind. Maybe a hand like TT that became apprehensive about the queen.

3) At this point I will make a good bet into this pot, I like the figure of 500. I am not certain at all what Villain holds here, and it's time to get that information. Furthermore, there's a very good chance that Villain is on a draw, and I cannot give the draw a free card. If Villain checkraises all in or some other value, I'm probably willing to die with this hand at this point. If villain just calls, I'm apt to call most river bets, though I may have to reassess if the 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] falls. I'll probably check any heart, nine or ace, and bet most obvious blanks for value.

I'd like to point out that while the Q may not have improved Villain's hand to a winner, it may well have given Villain runner runner straight outs.

[NoahSD]

Without looking.

I don't think much has changed. We're still ahead of his current range, his calling range, and his pushing range. So, I'm trying to get money in the pot against as many hands as possible (without giving a free card). I bet t600 and call a push.

BTW, villain's check confuses me and I think he may just be a donkey.

[kuro]

Villain's check makes it more likely that he has complete air, a weakish one pair type hand that he wants a cheap showdown with, or a strangely played draw that just lost a great deal of equity. So I'm asking myself how do I get the most value out of my hand which is probably pretty far ahead.

There are multiple ways to play this turn. I lean towards checking behind and conceding the draws because villain took a fairly nonstandard line on the flop if he has a draw with the hopes that I'll induce a bluff on the river from air/busted draws or a value bet/call of my river value bet. If we bet out the turn we fold out a lot of weakish hands that are afraid that they'll be faced with a bet on the river that they can't call and we make it less likely that they will bluff because it costs them such a big portion of their stack to put us to a decision given the pot size.

So given how I played this turn, my plan would be to call a bet on the river or to value bet when checked to on pretty much any river card.

[mts]

this is very weird to me.... his flop raise along with his turn check

you can bet or i like checking behind and calling a bet on the river unless its the straight AND flush card. Checking the turn invites any number of hands to give their last shot at winning the hand on the river by betting. This is the type of hand i usually do this on... one where i'm not sure where i'm at and would fold to a raise so i call the amount i would have bet on the turn.

dunno, sounds right to me. please refute.

[beenben]

1- It either means vast strength or total weakness.

2- Either he had pocket QQ and now he has top set, or AQ and he has top pair, or T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or two other hearts and he wants a free card; He could have an overpair between 9 and Q such as TT or JJ. He could have Q9 or 97 or a set, but I think that these hands would have bet. He could also have total junk and has given up on the hand.

I would think that a str8 is less likely because I think he would bet again to keep us from drawing out with hearts; I also think over pairs above queen are less likely for the same reason.

3- I think there's a good chance he's on a draw for a str8 or flush. I've not seen many people try two check-raises in the same hand and I don't think the move would be made without some serious strength. So I'm not worried about another check raise. If he wants to see another card, I want him to pay. I'm betting 500. If he does check raise me again, I'm probably putting my tail between my legs and folding. On the river if there's still no str8 or flush possible and no ace comes and he checks again, I'm betting 500 again. If a scare card comes and he bets, what I would do would depend upon the size of the bet.