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#1
10-03-2007, 11:11 AM
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Secessionists still alive in the American political landscape
Link to article
I actually made a bet with someone about ten years ago that secession would come up again in American politics within the next few decades. Apparently, the trends in the federal government taking more and more power for themselves does not sit well with local politicians. Desenting SCOTUS opinions have advocated abolishing state borders altogether because states have no say any longer. I have seen the seeds of this my entire life. The civil war was not about slavery, contrary to popular myth. The issue that it was about, states rights, was not settled with the blood of 600,000 Americans. I pray that this go round, if this heralds a new debate, that there will be no more blood. The pendulum is starting to slow in the direction of strong federal power and may soon break back in the direction of the states. I also see similar momentum with interventionist foriegn policy vs. isolation. All politics is local, no matter how far you try to push things. 
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#2
10-03-2007, 11:13 AM
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Re: Secessionists still alive in the American political landscape
[ QUOTE ]
Link to article I actually made a bet with someone about ten years ago that secession would come up again in American politics within the next few decades. Apparently, the trends in the federal government taking more and more power for themselves does not sit well with local politicians. Desenting SCOTUS opinions have advocated abolishing state borders altogether because states have no say any longer. I have seen the seeds of this my entire life. The civil war was not about slavery, contrary to popular myth. The issue that it was about, states rights, was not settled with the blood of 600,000 Americans. I pray that this go round, if this heralds a new debate, that there will be no more blood. The pendulum is starting to slow in the direction of strong federal power and may soon break back in the direction of the states. I also see similar momentum with interventionist foriegn policy vs. isolation. All politics is local, no matter how far you try to push things. [/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't mind Texas returning to an independent state. I'm sure a lot of the lefties out there wouldn't either.
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#3
10-03-2007, 11:27 AM
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Re: Secessionists still alive in the American political landscape
<<==wishes the country would break apart. The west could give Utah and Kansas to the east as parting gifts.
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#4
10-03-2007, 11:39 AM
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Re: Secessionists still alive in the American political landscape
Ex,
While I'm not surprised that this has come up, I dont think it has any legs honestly. I think most people prefer that we remain the "United States of America". I do hope the pendulum swings towards more states rights however. Not holding my breath though.
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#5
10-03-2007, 11:43 AM
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Re: Secessionists still alive in the American political landscape
In 1861, it was widely believed that, of course, states had the right to secede. So when the South sought to form a better government for itself, the North killed hundreds of thousands to subjugate the South.
It makes you wonder if modern day Copperheads will get thrown in jail for telling the story of whichever state tries to secede in the media. [ QUOTE ] On May 1, 1863, former Congressman Vallandigham declared that the war was being fought not to save the Union but to free the blacks and enslave Southern whites. The Army then arrested him for declaring sympathy for the enemy. [/ QUOTE ]
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#6
10-03-2007, 11:46 AM
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Re: Secessionists still alive in the American political landscape
[ QUOTE ]
Ex, While I'm not surprised that this has come up, I dont think it has any legs honestly. I think most people prefer that we remain the "United States of America". I do hope the pendulum swings towards more states rights however. Not holding my breath though. [/ QUOTE ] I think you are probably right. It seems to me to be a hyperbole tactic meant to draw attention to the real issue, the ever growing federal government. There is something not quite right about the United States without the states.
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#7
10-03-2007, 11:46 AM
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Re: Secessionists still alive in the American political landscape
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Ex, While I'm not surprised that this has come up, I dont think it has any legs honestly. I think most people prefer that we remain the "United States of America". I do hope the pendulum swings towards more states rights however. Not holding my breath though. [/ QUOTE ] I think you are probably right. It seems to me to be a hyperbole tactic meant to draw attention to the real issue, the ever growing federal government. There is something not quite right about the United States without the states. [/ QUOTE ] Would you raise a gun against the men that sought to not take part any longer?
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#8
10-03-2007, 04:09 PM
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Re: Secessionists still alive in the American political landscape
[ QUOTE ]
The civil war was not about slavery, contrary to popular myth. [/ QUOTE ] I always chuckle when I hear this. It would be unrecognizable to the people who led secession. They considered slavery the foundation of their unique society, and were very explicit in saying secession was the only way to save slavery, and ergo, their way of life. True, the North's fight was not directly about slavery, but the Confederacy's was. And it was primarily slavery that originally made the regions different, and quarrelsome.
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#9
10-03-2007, 04:26 PM
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Re: Secessionists still alive in the American political landscape
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The civil war was not about slavery, contrary to popular myth. [/ QUOTE ] I always chuckle when I hear this. It would be unrecognizable to the people who led secession. They considered slavery the foundation of their unique society, and were very explicit in saying secession was the only way to save slavery, and ergo, their way of life. True, the North's fight was not directly about slavery, but the Confederacy's was. And it was primarily slavery that originally made the regions different, and quarrelsome. [/ QUOTE ] That is not a true statement either. The war was about economics pure and simple and state vs federal rights. The South's economy was dependent on the export market and due to the type of crops it grew (cotton, tobacco, etc), it had a greater need for labor than the North. The North depended on crops like wheat, corn and light manufacturing which had less dependence on labor than the south's economy. The North had been forcing through legislation which led to nullification crisis of 1832 which were the true roots of the civil war. Slavery had NOTHING to do with it. Don't you believe that there was some idealogical divide on the issue of slavery. Lots of events at that time including New York City Draft Riots indicate that this is not true at all.
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#10
10-03-2007, 06:25 PM
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Re: Secessionists still alive in the American political landscape
[ QUOTE ]
Slavery had NOTHING to do with it. [/ QUOTE ] To believe that, you have to dismiss what the Confederates said they were fighting for. For example, Jefferson Davis's vice president wrote: "The cornerstone of the Confederacy was the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man, that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition." You also have to ignore what precipitated secession: the election of a president committed to preventing the expansion of slavery into any new states. The Confederates believed failure to grow would eventually be the end of all slavery.
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