How mucked is too mucked?

[whorasaurus]

Here's a good one. Two old guys go at it at 1/2. Bet, call, bet call, bet call. By the river, the board is 3 flushed. Old man #1 (who called river) asks what Old man #2 has. Old man #2 replies, "a flush." Old man #1 mucks his cards face down in disgust. Dealer makes Old man #2 show hand, which is KQ offsuit (no flush!). Old man #1 leaps into the muck and gets one card that was certainly his (not deep in the muck), and cant find his other one. Problem is, the one card he has is an ace, which pairs the board and is the best hand.

If you are floor, what do you do?

[Reko Savinen]

It's mucked. Hand's over. Close thread.

EDIT: Regardless, it's still two cards to win. Tell Old Guy that he shouldn't be dumb enough to muck until he's 100% sure his hand is beat.

[jively]

Do we get to kick the douchebag old guy in the nuts?

-Tom

[EazyCard]

It may have been a little unethical for lying about the flush, but rules are rules and once the cards get mucked nothing can be done.

[CybrPunk]

If the hand goes to showdown and a player fails to show his cards he can not win the pot. Cards that touch the muck in any way are dead and not retrievable. End of story.

[sirpupnyc]

Ooooh, magical muck, round 2837426!

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a good one. Two old guys go at it at 1/2. Bet, call, bet call, bet call. By the river, the board is 3 flushed. Old man #1 (who called river) asks what Old man #2 has. Old man #2 replies, "a flush." Old man #1 mucks his cards face down in disgust. Dealer makes Old man #2 show hand, which is KQ offsuit (no flush!). Old man #1 leaps into the muck and gets one card that was certainly his (not deep in the muck), and cant find his other one. Problem is, the one card he has is an ace, which pairs the board and is the best hand.

If you are floor, what do you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

In LA the rules lean toward awarding the pot to the best hand especially after the action is completed (i.e., no further betting is pending). So as long as the single card is clearly discernable award the pot to the best hand. Note if you (as a floor) are concerned about a bad deck (part of the reason a player must show two cards) impound the pot and check the deck before the final award.

Also note that if Old Man #2 (who incorrectly called a flush) has let's say a red KQ and the flush was in a black suit then number #1 would get the pot since #2 could be judged to have "intentionally over-called his hand". This results in forfeiture on the showdown but you need a clear indication of a miscall (e.g., you would have to assume mistaking a king of clubs for a king of spades is due to bad eyesight).

~ Rick

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
Cards that touch the muck in any way are dead and not retrievable. End of story.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you love when someone types "end of story" but is completely wrong?

[sirpupnyc]

Lying guy gets the pot and half an hour away from the table for misrepresenting his hand. Or chop it, but I have trouble finding a legit claim to the pot for foolish guy aside from best interest of the game.

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
Lying guy gets the pot and half an hour away from the table for misrepresenting his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

A time-out? In a cash game?