Religion A perfectly rational belief

[David Sklansky]

"The main two things that are left are the creation (cause of creation) of the universe, and the emergence (cause of emergence) of life. I implore you to not go down the same road that is proven to be at least in part the quite intelligent and necessary context based making stuff up."

You left out the emergence of consciousness, the emergence of specifically Doug Shrapnel, and stuff about quantum theory that I'm not fully qualified to discuss.

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
"The main two things that are left are the creation (cause of creation) of the universe, and the emergence (cause of emergence) of life. I implore you to not go down the same road that is proven to be at least in part the quite intelligent and necessary context based making stuff up."

You left out the emergence of consciousness, the emergence of specifically Doug Shrapnel, and stuff about quantum theory that I'm not fully qualified to discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]Thanks David, sometimes it's important to let others elaborate. QM I mentioned breifly here "unknown causes of natural phenomenon." I include myself in the life one. But there was a glaring unaccounted for existance of conciousness. Perhaps that fits in well with unaccounted for natural phenom. But the biggest glaring omission in the post was that I didn't describe how we should instead of going with the filled in data, but rationally detemine probabilities of what could be the correct solution of what we are blind to. It's something that I lack the expertise to advise further.

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm saying that religion is incorrect, but the belief in a God that controls the unknowns was and is to a certain extent a rational belief to hold. Not becuase of it's correctness, but because our minds tells us it's correct. The external arguemnts cannot compete with what our minds tell us.

[/ QUOTE ]

It might be reasonable for our mind to tell us that some force (let's call it god) must have created the universe. It is, however, completely unreasonable for our mind to tell us that a man rose from the dead and floated up into the atmosphere, that a virgin had a baby, that a piece of bread is actually human flesh, etc.

Most theists don't just have a vague feeling that something must be responsible for the universe. It's way more than the mind filling in the blanks. It is irrationality caused (usually) by brainwashing as a child.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
Most theists don't just have a vague feeling that something must be responsible for the universe. It's way more than the mind filling in the blanks. It is irrationality caused (usually) by brainwashing as a child.

[/ QUOTE ]

As well as a hugely inflated ego, since religion seems to make one central to god's (the absolute uber-fuhrer) concerns. I mean, all this universe, to give me the choice to be saved! LOL

[IronUnkind]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but that's what is so amazing about the mind. It's part of imagination. Religion restricts that tendency, the abililty of the mind to create awesome music out of virtually nothing, by forcing it all into a box of dogma. Now, spirituality I see differently. But it's actually possible for the brain to fill things in such that different elements contradict themselves - and that can be the source of incredible value. But again, religion restricts that. Religion stifles imagination by turning it toward stasis, and what you're talking about is the most remarkable example of dynamism in the known universe.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is it about Religion that you think stifles creativity? Prescriptive codes of conduct? The dichotomy you create is surely de rigeur, but you've yet to support it with specific examples, so it fails to satisfy anyone who wasn't raised on this pablum.

[KUJustin]

Alright, I apologize for not reading the whole thing (it's past my bed time), but you're ignoring those of us who believe for reasons outside of an inability to explain something scientifically.

In fact, to believe in God based solely on something like that seems very simple and insincere.

[IronUnkind]

[ QUOTE ]
As well as a hugely inflated ego, since religion seems to make one central to god's (the absolute uber-fuhrer) concerns. I mean, all this universe, to give me the choice to be saved! LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you even make an attempt to look dispassionate, or are you content to play the role of flatulent popinjay?

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm saying that religion is incorrect, but the belief in a God that controls the unknowns was and is to a certain extent a rational belief to hold. Not becuase of it's correctness, but because our minds tells us it's correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem to be equivocating two different 'rationals' here. From the objective and from the subjective.

It seems 'rational' that a slinky should walk it's way down the stairs. That does not mean the slinky is being rational in so doing.

From the outside we can rationally understand how a good chunk of the population falls into a 'god of the gaps' mode of thinking.
That does not make such thinking 'rational thinking'.
From the outside, it rational that Meth may bring on persecusion complex. That does not mean the user is making rational decisions while experiencing them.

luckyme

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As well as a hugely inflated ego, since religion seems to make one central to god's (the absolute uber-fuhrer) concerns. I mean, all this universe, to give me the choice to be saved! LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you even make an attempt to look dispassionate, or are you content to play the role of flatulent popinjay?

[/ QUOTE ]

At least, I don't think I am the purpose of the universe. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Skidoo]

[ QUOTE ]
At least, I don't think I am the purpose of the universe. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

To what purpose do you defer, then?