A Supreme Court Ruling That Warms My Little Racist Heart

[John Kilduff]

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I think "on average" whites and blacks are probably very even at basketball.

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I've been searching but can't find it: does anyone know the percentage of blacks who are professional basketball players compared to the percentage of whites? I don't watch much basketball but I'll take a wild guess that ~70% of professional players are black and ~30% are white. Yet blacks make up only...~30%(?) of the U.S. population!?

Since pro players are selected SOLELY on the basis of ability, this would overturn the notion that "whites and blacks are probably very even at basketball". Blacks simply get selected at a far, far higher rate than whites even though blacks are highly outnumbered in the population. My conclusion: the average black is probably naturally WAY better at basketball than the average white.

Does anyone know the actual percentages, or can find them?

My guess is that it is so incredibly lopsided, statistically speaking (especially since it goes on year after year), that "number of standard deviations away from the mean" almost wouldn't even apply.

The money in professional sports is huge enough today to attract anyone who likes the game and is highly talented.

Blacks are heavily overrepresented in basketball, football, baseball, boxing, running...I think it beggars belief to think that whites (on average) are as naturally gifted in the abilities required in these sports, or in the raw athletic prowess for these sports.

During the slave era, the physically fittest more often probably passed on their genes (and the physically weak may have often died), so the average American black today is the beneficiary of superior athletic genetics. As crude a picture as it may be, when slave auctions were held in the slave era, the healthiest generally fetched the highest prices. Plantation slave owners generally preferred the strong young bucks for breeding reasons, too.

The above stands the test of reasoning (at least at first glance), and the racial mix of professional sports in the USA seems to support the theory.

It would be a tough case to claim that blacks are predominant today in American professional sports solely for reasons related to sociological causes. The money has been huge for a long time now, and as far as I know, white kids love sports just as much as do black kids. The incentive is definitely there for white youths too.

Can anyone find the actual team makeups by race, or find running/track and field stats in the USA? I've searched and searched and can't find it, although I found a ton of articles about AA coaching stuff.

Thanks. The distribution is just completely statistically borked IMO, and player drafts are based on ability and skill. The best get selected each year, and the best overwhelmingly turn out to be black. Also, in Olympic running sports, aren't the best disproportionately black as well?

Thanks for reading, and for any thoughtful and/or informational responses.

[Brainwalter]

John, the way he quoted "on average" suggests to me that perhaps he means the average of each race is the same, but that blacks have more outliers on the "really good" and "really bad" ends of the spectrum, while whites are more clumped together at "about average". This distribution would also wind up with blacks being overrepresented in professional athletics. I have no idea which is true: Are blacks better "on average" or just have more exceptionally good athletes percentagewise. But it's obviously not the case that the black and white athletic prowess spectra are the same.

[John Kilduff]

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John, the way he quoted "on average" suggests to me that perhaps he means the average of each race is the same, but that blacks have more outliers on the "really good" and "really bad" ends of the spectrum, while whites are more clumped together at "about average". This distribution would also wind up with blacks being overrepresented in professional athletics. I have no idea which is true: Are blacks better "on average" or just have more exceptionally good athletes percentagewise. But it's obviously not the case that the black and white athletic prowess spectra are the same.

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I had not considered that possibility; good point, and thanks.

[Taraz]

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John, the way he quoted "on average" suggests to me that perhaps he means the average of each race is the same, but that blacks have more outliers on the "really good" and "really bad" ends of the spectrum, while whites are more clumped together at "about average". This distribution would also wind up with blacks being overrepresented in professional athletics. I have no idea which is true: Are blacks better "on average" or just have more exceptionally good athletes percentagewise. But it's obviously not the case that the black and white athletic prowess spectra are the same.

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QFT. And to take the sociological argument even farther . . . In poorer black communities, sports is seen as one of the major ways "out" of their situation. If you have more kids trying out for sports, you are probably also going to have more players of a particular race. I'm not saying this is what's going on or that it's all genetics, but we shouldn't just claim that we know one way or the other.

[John Kilduff]

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John, the way he quoted "on average" suggests to me that perhaps he means the average of each race is the same, but that blacks have more outliers on the "really good" and "really bad" ends of the spectrum, while whites are more clumped together at "about average". This distribution would also wind up with blacks being overrepresented in professional athletics. I have no idea which is true: Are blacks better "on average" or just have more exceptionally good athletes percentagewise. But it's obviously not the case that the black and white athletic prowess spectra are the same.

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QFT. And to take the sociological argument even farther . . . In poorer black communities, sports is seen as one of the major ways "out" of their situation. If you have more kids trying out for sports, you are probably also going to have more players of a particular race. I'm not saying this is what's going on or that it's all genetics, but we shouldn't just claim that we know one way or the other.

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I agree with all of this. It's possible that more black kids than white kids try out due to more interest amongst black kids, or it's possible that more white kids try out than black kids simply due to larger overall numbers.

I think given the enormous observable disparity in professional sports, neither of the above seems that it would fully suffice as explanation, and therefore it appears correct intuitively, that blacks on average probably are simply better athletically.

Once again we are handicapped in this thread by lack of sufficient relevant data (as we were handicapped in the thread wherein we discussed the relative occurrence or possible prevalence of radical or fundamentalist Islamic teachings by major religious figures or groups and institutions).

Thanks for your additional insight here, and I do agree that level of interest it is likely a factor too.

[Brainwalter]

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John, the way he quoted "on average" suggests to me that perhaps he means the average of each race is the same, but that blacks have more outliers on the "really good" and "really bad" ends of the spectrum, while whites are more clumped together at "about average". This distribution would also wind up with blacks being overrepresented in professional athletics. I have no idea which is true: Are blacks better "on average" or just have more exceptionally good athletes percentagewise. But it's obviously not the case that the black and white athletic prowess spectra are the same.

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QFT. And to take the sociological argument even farther . . .

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Just so we're clear I wasn't making a sociological argument (necessarily).

[owsley]

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In poorer black communities, sports is seen as one of the major ways "out" of their situation.

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This is a huge factor in why there are so many blacks in the NFL and NBA. There is a reason that the phrase "going to the league" came from a black community and not a white one. Of course if you accept this you also have accept the possibility that there is a stigma in black culture associated with acting white and doing well in school. I hate talking about this because people always try to blame it on one or the other, there are actually like 15 reasons for the racial divide and everyone just wants to narrow it down to what makes them feel good rather than be objective.

I thought that Ogbu's idea of voluntary vs involuntary immigrants was really interesting. The stuff the NAACP and Urban League guys said in response was really pathetic.

[Arnold Day]

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John, the way he quoted "on average" suggests to me that perhaps he means the average of each race is the same, but that blacks have more outliers on the "really good" and "really bad" ends of the spectrum, while whites are more clumped together at "about average". This distribution would also wind up with blacks being overrepresented in professional athletics. I have no idea which is true: Are blacks better "on average" or just have more exceptionally good athletes percentagewise. But it's obviously not the case that the black and white athletic prowess spectra are the same.

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QFT. And to take the sociological argument even farther . . .

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Just so we're clear I wasn't making a sociological argument (necessarily).

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Thanks for clearing up the on average comment. Another factor to consider is how important baskeball has become to black culture. I can't remeber another sport that has affected fashion so much. I never saw pictures of white kids walking around with baseball pants and Babe Ruth jeresys in the 1920s! But today it is common to see people wearing clothes ment to play beasketball in everyday situations. But we still don't know if blacks excel at baketball because it is a big part of their culture or if it is a big part of their culture because they excel at it.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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John, the way he quoted "on average" suggests to me that perhaps he means the average of each race is the same, but that blacks have more outliers on the "really good" and "really bad" ends of the spectrum, while whites are more clumped together at "about average". This distribution would also wind up with blacks being overrepresented in professional athletics. I have no idea which is true: Are blacks better "on average" or just have more exceptionally good athletes percentagewise. But it's obviously not the case that the black and white athletic prowess spectra are the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. And to take the sociological argument even farther . . . In poorer black communities, sports is seen as one of the major ways "out" of their situation. If you have more kids trying out for sports, you are probably also going to have more players of a particular race. I'm not saying this is what's going on or that it's all genetics, but we shouldn't just claim that we know one way or the other.

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too bad the community doesn't view education as an equivalent 'out'

which it is

the studies I've seen say everything else fades to igsignificant levels when the level of education is equal


unfortunately, AA doesn't do that

walk around my campus and I'll tell you what it does
it creates an underclass of students that cannot compete in the 'real' majors
instead, AA students end up in the walk-through majors that don't lead to professions and high income
What could've been a good student at a lower institution is overwhelmed

AA is not the answer

hand-outs are never the answer, and that is what AA is at the individual level

AA also hasn't worked in its goals

It would be better for the minorities if it is removed. The culture has to embrace education, not be given the express check line through it.






Anyway, it should all be moot. Natedogg hit the issue right on.
The US needs to end mandatory public schooling.
Of course, then the government wouldn't have its indoctrination and dumbing down machine.

[Taraz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In poorer black communities, sports is seen as one of the major ways "out" of their situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a huge factor in why there are so many blacks in the NFL and NBA. There is a reason that the phrase "going to the league" came from a black community and not a white one. Of course if you accept this you also have accept the possibility that there is a stigma in black culture associated with acting white and doing well in school. I hate talking about this because people always try to blame it on one or the other, there are actually like 15 reasons for the racial divide and everyone just wants to narrow it down to what makes them feel good rather than be objective.

I thought that Ogbu's idea of voluntary vs involuntary immigrants was really interesting. The stuff the NAACP and Urban League guys said in response was really pathetic.

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Well said. The whole situation is pretty awful from all sides.