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  #21  
Old 10-02-2007, 12:28 PM
Kurn, son of Mogh Kurn, son of Mogh is offline
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Default Re: The TSA and a Dead White Lady

The 19 hijackers didn't have to be let in on visas

This is a misunderstanding of the issue. The problem is that the US never checked Visas or passports in detail on exit. Nor did we have a system to flag individuals who overstayed their Visa time limits. Those kind of checks might well have prevented 9/11.

I don't think there was anything "questionable" enough about the backgrounds of these 19 that would have triggered anything that would have kept them out. At least not under the funding and staffing levels of the intelligence community for the 5 years preceding the event.

People always want to point fingers and say "here's where the blame goes." That may be human nature, but its wrong. In a free society there is always risk.
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  #22  
Old 10-02-2007, 12:31 PM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
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Default Re: The TSA and a Dead White Lady

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"profiling" certain makes sense, but is too politically incorrect. However, I fly almost every week and the security checks are not that time consuming or irritating. The worst I face regularly is about 15 minutes at the height of traffic at SFO...and thats without access to elite/first class lines.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really have to stop agreeing with you, it's getting scary.. I was at SFO on a Saturday afternoon flying home once. I had strep throat, a fever higher than my hippie brother's non-existant thermometer could read, and I'd been held up at the ticket counter for a good 1 1/2 hours and I still managed to walk onto my flight a couple seconds before it took off. (The line would have gone a little faster if a few people in line had been paying attention to the lady shouting every few minutes about how containers with liquid weren't allowed on the plane. Or had those same people watched the idiot in front of them argue about wanting to take their container of water on and being denied.)

Seriously though, can we privatize the security check points at airports though? I assume they could safely profile then without fear of.. angry voters or something. I mean, I know we're dealing with saving lives, but we'd hate to offend people by looking for the bad guys based on what we know they look like.. Sigh.

Or maybe the screeners could watch the videos from 9/11 before each shift (the guys walking thru security, not the planes hitting buildings) to know what kind of behaviour to be looking for..? Just.. something so it's not completely random.

Oh.. and just for [censored] and giggles..

<font color="red"> SSSSSSS </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think privatizing would help, and would probably hurt. A private TSA that profiles would get so bound up in law suits like the 6 imams, that they would spend their time defending themselves and not the country. Also, as a government agency, they have somewhat better access to DoD technology that might not be released to a private company.
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  #23  
Old 10-02-2007, 03:03 PM
PLOlover PLOlover is offline
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Default Re: The TSA and a Dead White Lady

[ QUOTE ]
the only thing that makes sense here is complaining about the arrest of someone who taped the incident on a cell phone. that is stupid obviously, and i'd like to hear what they charged him with.

[/ QUOTE ]

battery/assault/resisting arrest, the usual, and yes, they are made up charges. basically bad people who are police decide to assault you and then charge you with a crime to cover up their crime. It's not rocket science. also btw I would asssume school security guard is a punk on steroids, which tells you why a simple accident turned violent.
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  #24  
Old 10-02-2007, 03:32 PM
PLOlover PLOlover is offline
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Default Re: The TSA and a Dead White Lady

[ QUOTE ]
"There's been a rash of arrests of late for videotaping police, and it's a disturbing development. Last year, Massachusetts Attorney General Tom Reilly threatened Internet activist Mary T. Jean with arrest and felony prosecution for posting a video to her website of state police swarming a home and arresting a man without a warrant. "

[/ QUOTE ]

in a decent world the ag would be arrested for rackateering or someting. I mean really.
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  #25  
Old 10-02-2007, 03:39 PM
PLOlover PLOlover is offline
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Default Re: The TSA and a Dead White Lady

[ QUOTE ]
"There's been a rash of arrests of late for videotaping police, and it's a disturbing development. Last year, Massachusetts Attorney General Tom Reilly threatened Internet activist Mary T. Jean with arrest and felony prosecution for posting a video to her website of state police swarming a home and arresting a man without a warrant. "

[/ QUOTE ]

It's so interesting the reporter doesn't do any dilegence with regard to the "wiretapping" law.

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states/pennsylvania.html

[ QUOTE ]

Pennsylvania

[Back to state index]

18 Pa. Cons. Stat. §§ 5703, 5704: It is a felony to intercept any wire, oral or electronic communication without the consent of all participants. It also is a felony to disclose or use the contents of a communication when there is reason to know those contents were obtained through an illegal interception.

Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "oral communication," 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5702.

A trial court has held that a communication protected by the legislation is one in which there is an expectation that it will not be recorded by any electronic device, rather than one in which there is a general expectation of privacy. Thus, the fact that a participant may believe he will have to reveal the contents of a communication, or that other parties may repeat the contents, does not necessarily mean that he would have expected that it would be recorded, and it is the expectation that the communication would not be recorded that triggers the wiretapping law's protections. Pennsylvania v. McIvor, 670 A.2d 697 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1996), petition for appeal denied, 692 A.2d 564 (Pa. 1997).

Anyone whose communication has been unlawfully intercepted can recover actual damages in the amount of $100 per day of violation or $1,000, whichever is greater, and also can recover punitive damages, litigation costs and attorney fees. 18 Pa. Const. Stat.§ 5725.

A person commits a misdemeanor if he views, photographs or films another person in a state of full or partial nudity without consent, under circumstances where the nude person has an expectation of privacy.18 Pa. Const. Stat.§ 7507.1.



Published Winter 2003. © The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, 1815 N. Fort Myer Drive, Suite 900, Arlington, VA 22209. (703) 807-2100


[/ QUOTE ]

I mean, 5 second google search. so either the police are maintaining they expect privacy even though they are public servants in public, or they simple are operating under of color of law.
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  #26  
Old 10-02-2007, 03:56 PM
John Kilduff John Kilduff is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,903
Default Re: The TSA and a Dead White Lady

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"There's been a rash of arrests of late for videotaping police, and it's a disturbing development. Last year, Massachusetts Attorney General Tom Reilly threatened Internet activist Mary T. Jean with arrest and felony prosecution for posting a video to her website of state police swarming a home and arresting a man without a warrant. "

[/ QUOTE ]

It's so interesting the reporter doesn't do any dilegence with regard to the "wiretapping" law.

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states/pennsylvania.html

[ QUOTE ]

Pennsylvania

[Back to state index]

18 Pa. Cons. Stat. §§ 5703, 5704: It is a felony to intercept any wire, oral or electronic communication without the consent of all participants. It also is a felony to disclose or use the contents of a communication when there is reason to know those contents were obtained through an illegal interception.

Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "oral communication," 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5702.

A trial court has held that a communication protected by the legislation is one in which there is an expectation that it will not be recorded by any electronic device, rather than one in which there is a general expectation of privacy. Thus, the fact that a participant may believe he will have to reveal the contents of a communication, or that other parties may repeat the contents, does not necessarily mean that he would have expected that it would be recorded, and it is the expectation that the communication would not be recorded that triggers the wiretapping law's protections. Pennsylvania v. McIvor, 670 A.2d 697 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1996), petition for appeal denied, 692 A.2d 564 (Pa. 1997).

Anyone whose communication has been unlawfully intercepted can recover actual damages in the amount of $100 per day of violation or $1,000, whichever is greater, and also can recover punitive damages, litigation costs and attorney fees. 18 Pa. Const. Stat.§ 5725.

A person commits a misdemeanor if he views, photographs or films another person in a state of full or partial nudity without consent, under circumstances where the nude person has an expectation of privacy.18 Pa. Const. Stat.§ 7507.1.



Published Winter 2003. © The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, 1815 N. Fort Myer Drive, Suite 900, Arlington, VA 22209. (703) 807-2100


[/ QUOTE ]

I mean, 5 second google search. so either the police are maintaining they expect privacy even though they are public servants in public, or they simple are operating under of color of law.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its a bad argument, or perhaps more accurately a bad law, that public servants should have expectation of privacy regarding their actions taken in carrying out their duties of public service while in performance of those duties.
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  #27  
Old 10-02-2007, 04:15 PM
PLOlover PLOlover is offline
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Default Re: The TSA and a Dead White Lady

[ QUOTE ]
I think its a bad argument, or perhaps more accurately a bad law, that public servants should have expectation of privacy regarding their actions taken in carrying out their duties of public service while in performance of those duties.

[/ QUOTE ]

well the main point is that it's not a law at all, it's just someting that thugs with guns say and for some reason some lawyers in public office go along with it.

I mean, it's absurd on the face of it, because police cars have cameras that record every traffic stop and stuff.
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  #28  
Old 10-02-2007, 04:28 PM
bluef0x bluef0x is offline
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Default Re: The TSA and a Dead White Lady

[ QUOTE ]

The 19 hijackers didn't have to be let in on visas had our laws been different and less liberal. Instead of subjecting everyone to searches and mistreatment, if we simply didn't let in many people of questionable or suspicious background, we wouldn't have had that problem on 9/11, and average Americans today wouldn't be subjected to ridiculously time-consuming and irritating waits and procedures. But the liberal tenet of non-discrimination is so engrained in the American psyche, that the notion of profiled refusals for visas stands as so repugnant that it won't even be contemplated by those in positions of authority to make policy. Better everyone should suffer than risk violating the liberal mantra of absolute non-discrimination no matter what.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've flown 8 times since 9/11... I haven't found any of them to be time-consuming or irritating. SAC, LAX, Vegas, Tucson, and some small airports... all of them took less than 30 minutes. But yeah, every white man should bet allowed to show up 5 minutes late for a flight while everyone else is subjected to cavity searches.
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  #29  
Old 10-02-2007, 05:47 PM
blufish blufish is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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Posts: 258
Default Re: The TSA and a Dead White Lady

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The 19 hijackers didn't have to be let in on visas had our laws been different and less liberal. Instead of subjecting everyone to searches and mistreatment, if we simply didn't let in many people of questionable or suspicious background, we wouldn't have had that problem on 9/11, and average Americans today wouldn't be subjected to ridiculously time-consuming and irritating waits and procedures. But the liberal tenet of non-discrimination is so engrained in the American psyche, that the notion of profiled refusals for visas stands as so repugnant that it won't even be contemplated by those in positions of authority to make policy. Better everyone should suffer than risk violating the liberal mantra of absolute non-discrimination no matter what.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've flown 8 times since 9/11... I haven't found any of them to be time-consuming or irritating. SAC, LAX, Vegas, Tucson, and some small airports... all of them took less than 30 minutes. But yeah, every white man should bet allowed to show up 5 minutes late for a flight while everyone else is subjected to cavity searches.

[/ QUOTE ]

your sample size is too small.

anyways, the daily searches of old ladies, children, and those dreaded white guys you hate, do not do any good, and waste everyone's time. period.
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  #30  
Old 10-02-2007, 05:59 PM
TomCollins TomCollins is offline
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Default Re: The TSA and a Dead White Lady

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The 19 hijackers didn't have to be let in on visas had our laws been different and less liberal. Instead of subjecting everyone to searches and mistreatment, if we simply didn't let in many people of questionable or suspicious background, we wouldn't have had that problem on 9/11, and average Americans today wouldn't be subjected to ridiculously time-consuming and irritating waits and procedures. But the liberal tenet of non-discrimination is so engrained in the American psyche, that the notion of profiled refusals for visas stands as so repugnant that it won't even be contemplated by those in positions of authority to make policy. Better everyone should suffer than risk violating the liberal mantra of absolute non-discrimination no matter what.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've flown 8 times since 9/11... I haven't found any of them to be time-consuming or irritating. SAC, LAX, Vegas, Tucson, and some small airports... all of them took less than 30 minutes. But yeah, every white man should bet allowed to show up 5 minutes late for a flight while everyone else is subjected to cavity searches.

[/ QUOTE ]

your sample size is too small.

anyways, the daily searches of old ladies, children, and those dreaded white guys you hate, do not do any good, and waste everyone's time. period.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've flown perhaps once a month since 9/11 (60 round trips?) and have not had any major problems. I have managed to bring liquids not in a seperate ziplock bag (by mistake) twice and not been stopped. I'm not too sure they do anything at all. The longest wait I can remember in that time might have been 20 minutes and most times I have waited &lt;10 minutes. I do fly out of Austin (a pretty small airport), so that might be some of it.

Obvious targeting of people is foolish as they will just avoid the profiles and send someone else to do the work.
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