Batting The Pitcher 8th

[kyleb]

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I dont even nessasarily mean that he'll be converted but see no reason he should bat ninth if he continues to hit.
I could see them letting him dh in an al park. I just dont see the point in lumping a good hitter who happens to be a pitcher in a group with the typical terrible hitting pitchers. For example it used to drive me crazy when Colorado would pinch hit for Mike Hamton (or have him sac bunt with a man on 1st and one out) with some 230 light hitting worthless player who was a worse hitter than Hampton (usually this was in the 4th inning since hampton got rocked so often)

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Right, this is fine. Owings was a studly hitter in college, and takes great pride in keeping up with his skills. Some pitchers don't give a [censored] and just practice bunting. Owings could be used in all pinch hitting / platoon situations or DH opportunities during interleague play. Making him a two-way star is probably a good way to get him injured, and a league average starter is worth a lot more than a league average corner outfielder.

[NT!]

probably wouldn't hurt to work out owings in the field just in case. even if you just played him once a week he could be a useful platoon guy without too much risk.

would be much lower risk if he bombed as a starter and got moved to the pen, but he'll probably be ok as a SP.

[vhawk01]

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As Kyle said, it has little relevance, but I think BP did a piece a few years back and it was postulated that the optimum lineup construction would have the pitcher, or worst hitter, batting as far as possible away from the best hitter, which would be 8th, as the best hitter should bat 3rd in order to gain slightly more at-bats in the 3rd hole rather the 4th.

I'll see if I can find it, but I'm sure someone around here has the article on speed dial.

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BP demonstrated that the best hitter should hit 3rd? Huh, I always assumed that the best hitter should be hitting first and the only reason they never do is the same reason that a bunch of other stupid things happen in baseball. I assumed that the extra 20-30 ABs over the course of the season would more than make up for any sort of advantage of hitting with guys on more often.

EDIT: I meant PAs not ABs.

[RedBean]

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Kevin Goldstein talked about this awhile ago, but it was about Josh Hamilton instead of Micah Owings. Hamilton routinely hit 96 mph with his fastball in high school and completed his senior year with a 0.00 ERA. The consensus is that to simply be in the big leagues doing one thing was hard enough; to be an actual two-way star would be next to impossible.

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Wasn't this the case with Tim Hudson also?

[RedBean]

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BP demonstrated that the best hitter should hit 3rd? Huh, I always assumed that the best hitter should be hitting first and the only reason they never do is the same reason that a bunch of other stupid things happen in baseball.

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One it's own, that's right, but also factoring in that you want your worst hitter as far away in the lineup as possible...ie the Pitcher....then to hit the top guy leadoff, you'd need to bat the pitcher 6th.

All things considered, the 3rd/8th spots for best/worst are a better tradeoff than 1st/6th.

[vhawk01]

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BP demonstrated that the best hitter should hit 3rd? Huh, I always assumed that the best hitter should be hitting first and the only reason they never do is the same reason that a bunch of other stupid things happen in baseball.

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One it's own, that's right, but also factoring in that you want your worst hitter as far away in the lineup as possible...ie the Pitcher....then to hit the top guy leadoff, you'd need to bat the pitcher 6th.

All things considered, the 3rd/8th spots for best/worst are a better tradeoff than 1st/6th.

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Ah, I see. Thats cool.

[MikeyPatriot]

I thought The Book recommended your best two hitters in the 2nd and 4th spots while the pitcher is "optimal" in the 8th spot, though it doesn't really have a great effect.

[kyleb]

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I thought The Book recommended your best two hitters in the 2nd and 4th spots while the pitcher is "optimal" in the 8th spot, though it doesn't really have a great effect.

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Yeah, the "best" (OBP weighted) hitter hits 2nd. Your cleanup hitter is a high-slugging guy who doesn't necessarily walk much.

Then there's the effect of hitting a lefty second in the lineup for hit and run plays and stealing and blah blah blah boring minutia that is only exciting to coaches. I think it's interesting and I employ it when I coach Little League (and will at the HS level) but otherwise it's not relevant.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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I thought The Book recommended your best two hitters in the 2nd and 4th spots while the pitcher is "optimal" in the 8th spot, though it doesn't really have a great effect.

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Yeah, the "best" (OBP weighted) hitter hits 2nd. Your cleanup hitter is a high-slugging guy who doesn't necessarily walk much.

Then there's the effect of hitting a lefty second in the lineup for hit and run plays and stealing and blah blah blah boring minutia that is only exciting to coaches. I think it's interesting and I employ it when I coach Little League (and will at the HS level) but otherwise it's not relevant.

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I think most of this forum finds it pretty interesting

never thought about the left batting second thing before

[Kos13]

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I have to disagree. Has Ankiel's season taught you guys nothing? Why would you guys keep a medicore pitcher when you could have a solid, top-of-the-lineup hitter?<font color="white">lawl leveled</font>

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When did Ankiel become a solid, top-of-the-lineup hitter? The guy hit .267/.314/.568 at AAA this year. His solid MLB numbers are due to a high BABIP in a small sample. The guy is a 4th outfielder who should be made into a Brooks Kieschnick type.