A2s cutoff, playing more by image

bellatrix · #1 09-20-2007, 06:04 PM

This is one, where I'm still on the fence, basically on all streets.
Villain is a good player, tight, aggro post-flop (perhaps a bit too aggro).
I have played about 50 hands at this table and have VP$iP about 3-4 times, really card-dead. So my image is extremely tight. LOL, and the only time I W2SD, I had pocket aces. So I'm looking to steal now...

Full Tilt 0.25/0.5 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (5.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ?

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was that raise on the flop spew? I raised for a free card, but will I actually take a free card?

Bona · #2 09-20-2007, 06:08 PM

I think it was a good spot for a free card play and that you should indeed take the free card. We are lookin good with about 12 outs here and if we hit we may even get a chance to raise the river.

tyler_cracker · #3 09-20-2007, 06:09 PM

i would not raise the flop because villain is never folding but is often 3betting. you have a lot of outs (12 + your A is good sometimes) but no equity edge HU so you can't raise for value. you are also in position. so just call until you make something, then pop it.

Oink · #4 09-20-2007, 06:20 PM

The flop is close and depends. You are targeting better A's here. If he has a pp or Kx you either wont fold him or dont want him to fold.

EDIT: Just wante dto say that the flop raise is cheap. You will almost always have 9 flush outs, 3 straight outs and 3 pair outs = 15 outs. Its only against sets, AT and AA you dont. (Possibly 44 and 55) Add KQ to the mix and your eq looks close to 50.

Check the turn. Not that you should make a habit of raising draws in position HU and then take the free card. But because that card sucks. If you thought you could have folded AK and AJ when you raised the flop you have to revise that belief now as they wont fold. Besides KQ now caught up and AQ will prolly c/r you. Since its a blind steal situation I also doubt you are folding pocket pairs by a bet.

So I would check behind and hope the river saves me.

aK13 · #5 09-20-2007, 06:35 PM

He won't fold to the flop raise -- basically he should peel with anything in that spot.

It makes no sense to raise the flop unless you plan to bet.

We're in a great spot to push better Aces off (A9, AJ), and if we're beaten by AT or AQ or KQ or something similar (or mid pockets), we have lots of outs to improve and get him to spew some chips.

I don't like call/call/fold unimproved in this spot because we have so much reason to push our spot hard.

OrigamiSensei · #6 09-20-2007, 06:37 PM

This is a hand that was in the session review I did with Bella. Here are my comments on the flop and turn:

I don’t like the raise and here’s why. He’s not going to fold here so the raise won’t help you on that score. You might be thinking it’s a raise for a free card, but you’re also already paying half of that cost and there’s a good chance he’ll 3-ball you (haven’t looked yet, doing this as a playalong) and thereby cost you even more money if you miss. Meanwhile, if you simply call you’re getting appropriate odds to draw on the turn (7+:1) and assuming he bets the turn you’ll be getting sufficient odds to see the river (5+:1). Those are perfectly good odds to play with.

(sees turn) Okay, you got your free card but now your hand is sort of face up and he can simply bet you off the hand on the river.

Landonfan · #7 09-20-2007, 07:16 PM

Flop raise is standard imo. If villain is solid and recognizes you as tight, this is an easy turn bet.

Landonfan · #8 09-20-2007, 07:24 PM

Does betting out AK/AJ/possibly an underpair not outweigh getting a free card? Am I really that far off?

Aaron W. · #9 09-20-2007, 08:32 PM

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I have played about 50 hands at this table and have VP$iP about 3-4 times, really card-dead. So my image is extremely tight.

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playing more by image

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Full Tilt 0.25/0.5 Hold'em (8 handed)

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LOL

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Villain is a good player, tight

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BB 3-bets

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LOL

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I raised for a free card

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Villain is ... aggro post-flop (perhaps a bit too aggro)

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LOL

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Just call the flop.

OrigamiSensei · #10 09-20-2007, 09:00 PM

Having reviewed the session it was actually a tight-ish table and BB may not have been a great player but had some small semblance of a clue. Also, Bella's image was indeed tight since she was pretty card dead. I know, I know, unusual but in this case I can actually confirm it.

But like you and tyler I still say call the flop.