Art Collecting/Investing

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

can someone explain what makes a great painting? it seems like its just a buch of people agreeing on it being great, and then the historical value of the fact that those people thought it was great?

[guids]

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can someone explain what makes a great painting? it seems like its just a buch of people agreeing on it being great, and then the historical value of the fact that those people thought it was great?

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to me, what makes a painting great, is when I look at it, it inspires me enough to learn the story behind teh painting and about the person who painted it.

[nyc999]

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can someone explain what makes a great painting? it seems like its just a buch of people agreeing on it being great, and then the historical value of the fact that those people thought it was great?

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to me, what makes a painting great, is when I look at it, it inspires me enough to learn the story behind teh painting and about the person who painted it.

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Me too.

To the previous post, I have absolutely no idea what makes a piece of art valuable. One of the "rising talents" on the NYC art scene (his name escapes me) did a whole series of works where he basically ripped articles out of the NY Times, threw them on a canvas, and then masturbated onto them. He got a small exhibition at either the Whitney or Guggenheim. Needless to say, I will not be purchasing any of his work.

[ElSapo]

I wanted to post again in this thread because it’s a topic that is important to me. Selling art is not an easy thing, and I think most especially for artists that are not well known. High-end, well-known, significant and historically recognized works of art will always have a market – the perceived value may fluctuate, but the market will always be there and they go back and forth often times more like commodities.

But for the not-rich, not art-savvy, purchasing art in my experience is a more complicated and even intimidating thing. And that’s something I’d really like to change. It’s primarily the fault of the artist, really, and of the galleries and dealers that represent them.

As I said before, I have a vested interest – I’d like more people to buy the work I make. Across 2005-2006 I sold about $5,000 worth of photographs and other pieces. My profit margin on that was almost nil, to be honest, after you factor in materials and marketing, cuts to a woman who represented me in her establishment (50%), grant applications, equipment, printing and so on. While the most well-known artists probably do very well, for the very large group of so-called “emerging artists,” struggling or otherwise, it’s very difficult to make a living.

So while I have that interest, I also want people to purchase art – any art – simply because I think the world would be a better place if people more enjoyed owning art, supporting artists, and had a higher regard for what goes on their walls.

There is nothing more frustrating to me than the person who buys a reproduction, a poster, of something fairly random and then spends $300 or so to have it framed. For $300 and some time you could own something you have a connection to, that means something to you, and support something beyond the framing and mass printing industry.

So, with all that aside, I have a few tips for would-be art buyers. And I’ve included some pieces I have as examples.



This first painting is my absolute favorite piece, and I think it represents the value of buying overseas. It’s by a Colombian artist named Daniel Ortega. I bought the painting in Ecuador for $100, essentially from a street exhibition. I had to cut it off the frame to get it home, and having it re-stretched cost more than the painting, but I’ve never doubted the effort or money. I love this painting. I loved it the moment I saw it, and never had any doubt I would buy it.

I think buying in other countries has tremendous potential. As long as you’re buying work that you like, it shouldn’t make a difference where you buy. Now, in general I’m not talking about watercolors sold by people at the sights in a big city. Venice watercolors and drawings abound, and in my opinion there’s little to differentiate between them. But hey, if it’s what you like, buy it. But if you go to exhibitions or more artsy areas of a city you can find good value from talented artists.



This second painting is by a Washington, D.C.-based artist named Matt Sesow. I’ve met him a couple of times, though he’d never remember me. I’m on his mailing list, go to shows he does around town, and visited his studio/apartment a couple of times. I like this guy partially because of his work, but also because of his story: he simply decided one day that he was going to be an artist. He roughed out a budget. quit his job, and started producing tons of paintings. He’s very prolific, shows everywhere he can, and is committed to making a living by making art. For that reason, even if I don’t love all his stuff, I’m happy to support him.

This painting, relatively small, cost me something like $15.



This cartoon I bought in an auction at the National Press Club. It’s by a Cuban-born artist known as Garrincha, and I think I paid $75. Auctions, especially charity auctions, are a great place to buy art at good value. I’ve donated pieces to charity auctions before and while it’s a nice thing to do, it’s always frustrating how cheaply the work sells for. That’s good for you, and doesn’t hurt the artist at all seeing as he/she donated the piece.



This is the Salvador Dali etching I bought at an auction, through a fairly reputable dealer. I mentioned earlier that buying prints is a good way to go, though I mean lithographs and etchings and so on, not mass-produced reproductions. Some can be very expensive, but there is also the opportunity to own work by more well-known artists if that’s what you want. This piece was like $500 I think (it’s been about six years since I bought it, so I don’t recall exactly).

There is a flip side to buying prints – certain artists, and Dali is chief among them, are forged very often. When I say “forged,” it becomes a little more of a grey area with prints. Most often, the print “design” is the artists’ work. Sometimes the signature if not theirs, however. In Dali’s case, there have been reports that he would sign blank sheets and then assistants would print the image later. Some print series are well catalogued, but many are not.

What does that mean for you? Well, first, either buy through a reputable seller or from the artist himself. So, that tends to rule out eBay. But ultimately, you have to buy what you love – if you love the work itself, you’re less likely to fear a forged signature if the work is by a well-known artist.

A less-practiced idea: hang your own work on your walls. I think this is significant, though I’ll understand if you don’t. I encourage everyone to make art – it’s a way to connect with other people, even if you’re not confident in your work. Make it anyway. Show it to people. I really believe that everyone has something to express, and there are so many different mediums that we can all find a way to put it out there. It doesn’t have to be great, you just have to be willing to share it with others.

Final thoughts – “art” has this unfortunate air around it that makes it intimidating. I hate walking into commercial galleries, because I feel like I get the “This Guy Is Not Going To Buy Anything” stare from whoever is at the desk. That’s bad. But remember – in the end, you’re the customer. Don’t let anyone make you feel your money is worth less than someone else’s. Believe me, if you find something you want to buy, the artist will want to sell it to you. Don’t let it be an intimidating process.

Get to know artists. They want to make sales, and they will work with you on price. Believe me, they want you to hang their work. Most will bend over backwards to make a sale, and they will do it without any regret.

Part of the reason I think more people don’t buy art from lesser-known artists, is because they don’t know if it’s “good.” What you hang on your wall represents you in many ways, and so I think people have an inherent fear of being judged. “Why did he buy that?” people might think. The upside to buying “known” work is that it’s already been judged. You don’t have to worry about someone questioning it. The downside, of course, is price.

My suggestion is to be committed to the work. Be sure of it. You really have to enjoy owning it, enjoy seeing it. If you do those things, it lifts so many of the other questions you might feel.

[cbloom]

Not much to add, but I want to emphasize that if you're serious/interested, you should just go to some openings, meet some artists. They're fun people, you can go hang in their studio and check out their work. Up and coming artists will sell you work direct for way way less than you'd pay in a gallery, like 4X less. Many are broke and will trade too. I used to know an artist who would give paintings to doctors or dentists for a visit, paintings that were $5000 - $10,000 in galleries were being traded for a $200 visit because she was dead broke. Don't worry about it is an "investment" though, it's just a nice piece of art, if you get lucky it's worth something but you shouldn't buy for that.

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A less-practiced idea: hang your own work on your walls. I think this is significant, though I’ll understand if you don’t. I encourage everyone to make art – it’s a way to connect with other people, even if you’re not confident in your work. Make it anyway. Show it to people. I really believe that everyone has something to express, and there are so many different mediums that we can all find a way to put it out there. It doesn’t have to be great, you just have to be willing to share it with others.


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QFT this is what I do now. It's way more satisfying to create something and put it up. If you stick to abstract art it will at least look decent and you can pick colors that complement the room. Obviously an amateur trying to realistic/figurative stuff might look really bad. I like to play with texture and material, so I've been making collages and using spackle and whatever other junk I can find, stick it on a canvas and it looks pretty cool. Then you can exchange things with friends and it's even more fun.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

does anyone else find it disturbing that an artist sells his work? does he make two copies?

[cbloom]

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does anyone else find it disturbing that an artist sells his work? does he make two copies?

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If it's a serious artist or a significant work there will be prints. Usually the artist will sell the original and a limited series of prints, and keep one of the prints for their portfolio.

Most struggling working artists will have a bunch of unsold prints of earlier works wadded up in a closet.

[ElSapo]

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does anyone else find it disturbing that an artist sells his work? does he make two copies?

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If it's a serious artist or a significant work there will be prints. Usually the artist will sell the original and a limited series of prints, and keep one of the prints for their portfolio.

Most struggling working artists will have a bunch of unsold prints of earlier works wadded up in a closet.

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It sounds like you're just talking about printmakers, where yes, limited edtitions are common. So are unlimited editions.

But plenty of mediums don't lend themselves to "copies." I got more of an angsty, giving-up-my-baby vibe from the original question.

It doesn't strike me as odd, personally, but some artists will make something and then not sell it. I've certainly heard of that.

[zac777]

I love that first piece you posted. Do you know if any of his work is online, or am I going to need to make a trip to Ecuador to browse his collection?

I poked around a bit on google - appropriately enough, this is the first picture I found by someone with that name:




Sold out, sadly.

[unfoldable]

if you dont want to spend any money for great art, check out the underground artist banksy.
On his web page he has a "shop" which has great pics in high-res for free. Just download it and print it yourself if you like it.
The page seems to be down sometimes. Dont know whats wrong. Btw, when he sells his art, it gets really expensive.