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  #1  
Old 06-08-2007, 10:22 AM
nyc999 nyc999 is offline
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Default Art Collecting/Investing

Wondering if anyone in the El D forum considers themselves to be an art collector or investor? You don’t have to be serious about it, but I would love to get a discussion going about what you collect, how much you spend, and your motivation (e.g. the enjoyment, the potential for appreciation, etc.).

I’m moving into a new apartment soon and figure why not buy some art for the empty walls? I’ve read that art collectors can spend as little as $500 for an art piece that has the potential for serious appreciation over time.

My criteria for selecting art will be as follows:

1. After research, a piece that I think could increase in value
2. Something that I like – that is, I would be happy to display it in my home regardless of future value

I had started this about 2 years ago, buying two pieces – one from a gallery in Chelsea (NYC) and one in SF. However, I parted ways with both of them during my recent divorce.

Also, it appears to be extremely difficult to predict which artists’ work will be more valuable in time. I read an article in Portfolio that said one of the primary reasons an artist’s work increases in value is having it purchased by one of the major collectors (think David Geffen/Steve Wynn). They cited how Michael Ovitz (former Hollywood super agent) recently purchased a painting for around 5K-10K and the value increased when he stepped out of the gallery. He sold it recently for $500,000 (which was actually considered a slight to the artist and may actually hurt the value of his other pieces). It seems weird to me, that these major art investors can basically snatch up cheap pieces/collections and essentially set the market value, making themselves more rich with every purchase.

Anyway, any collectors/investors out there?
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  #2  
Old 06-08-2007, 11:02 AM
ElSapo ElSapo is offline
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Default Re: Art Collecting/Investing

Unless you're really serious about it, and have background and experience with it, I'd advise against trying to invest in art for the sake of future appreciation.

If you want to buy art (please do), buy it because you love it. Purchase art that you enjoy owning and looking at. Meet the artist, make a connection, support them and become vested in their work.

I think it's absolutely true you can find some great work in the price range you mention. Will it appreciate over time? Who knows - art tends to be an up and down market following the whims of economies not always directly connected.

I tend to advise against anyone buying art solely for the purpose of making money.

But if you buy art that you love, pieces you want to own for a long time, then it becomes a no-lose situation. It's possible the art will appreciate in time. But whether or not someone else values it more later, it's still worth owning to you.

Check out "I Bought Andy Warhol." Good read, I think by Richard Polsky.

I have no credentials, by the way. I call myself an artist sometimes, hence my wanting you to support up-and-coming artists. I own the work of artists I know, and about seven or eight others for various reasons.

My favorite piece is an oil painting I bought on the street in Ecuador for $100. It's a beautiful piece, about 4-foot by 3-foot, and a year later I went back and had to pay triple for a piece half the size. Because it appreciated? No, mostly because I was a white dude who they knew they could sell to.

I have a Dali etching and a Miro print that I bought specifically because I love those artists. I bought through a reputable dealer, but there's a chance the signatures are fake. I'll never know, and I'm not sure I care.

I have a cartoon by Cuban editorial cartoonist Garincha that I love. It's not worth much at all, but it's a great piece.

I have the work of some artist friends you've probably never heard of. Hopefully those will appreciate, mostly because it would be good for them. I got them both in trades.

I'm really attached to my stuff. The most I've paid for a piece is about $700. The least was about $30. I only buy things I want to own for a very, very long time. I don't really have an interest in getting rid of them - these things make me happy just seeing them.

Just thoughts...
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  #3  
Old 06-08-2007, 11:28 AM
nyc999 nyc999 is offline
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Default Re: Art Collecting/Investing

I completely agree and only plan to purchase work I'd be proud to display in my home. I also agree about your point in getting to know the artist, etc. I had lengthy conversations with the two artists I previously purchased from, and really got to know their motivations, backgrounds, etc. It's nice to have a story behind each piece.
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Old 06-08-2007, 11:33 AM
Kneel B4 Zod Kneel B4 Zod is offline
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Default Re: Art Collecting/Investing

[ QUOTE ]
I completely agree and only plan to purchase work I'd be proud to display in my home. I also agree about your point in getting to know the artist, etc. I had lengthy conversations with the two artists I previously purchased from, and really got to know their motivations, backgrounds, etc. It's nice to have a story behind each piece.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know much about this, but a very good friend of mine's wife works at a gallery. I go to their opening every month (free wine, holla).

they have a bunch of art in their home that they get at a steep discount b/c they don't pay the galleries commission (they buy direct from the artist). so, my advice is to hook up with an art gallery chick!
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  #5  
Old 06-08-2007, 11:39 AM
ElSapo ElSapo is offline
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Default Re: Art Collecting/Investing

Sometimes it may not be possible to avoid commissions - depending on the artist, their loyalty to their representation, and so on. But gallery commissions are high if you're going that route, but if you're going that route (through an established commercial gallery) then we're usually talking more than $500.

Try art fairs. Try small exhibitions, and group exhibitions. Where do you live?

Many artists will work with you on price - they want to sell their work. They'll especially work with repeat buyers, or people they know a little better.

Consider collecting prints (not posters, obviously, but lithos or etchings and so on), which often can be a little cheaper and more accessible but certainly no less "art."
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  #6  
Old 06-08-2007, 02:57 PM
wet work wet work is offline
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Default Re: Art Collecting/Investing

I don't consider myself an avid collector but I've managed to gather a few pieces that I really like and have been good investments as well. One of my best friends is an art dealer (mostly music stuff) and he's hooked me up with some stuff that's appreciated nicely, mostly by giving me rock bottom prices on some prints that were near the end of their run.

I have an original pen and ink by Jerry Garcia-- one of only 2 he did in an asian style. A book just came out recently that my friend submitted my piece to be in (a couple of his are in it) and the lady chose the other one in this style, kind of a bummer as it probably would've increased it's value but oh well. I could sell it for a decent sum but I'm not planning on it.

I also have an original pen and ink by Aldous Huxley that's pretty cool. Don't really know how much that one's worth, but I picked it up for less than 1k. It's kind of a cool piece, a simple landscape-- it's aged well and has a nice sepia tone now. I bought it from his psychiatrist's son and it was an X-mas present to her in 1946. There's a nice little handwritten note attached as well.

Another cool piece I have is a nude drawing(original) by Alex Grey, one of my favorite artists. He's incredibly talented and I definitely plan on getting something else by him that's more reflective of his style, he paints these amazing psychedelic pieces. He and his wife are very cool and she invited me to his studio, when I bought that piece, to have a look around and maybe get something else. Check out his website, incredible stuff.

My friend is a retailer for Vladimir Kush, another amazingly talented psychedelic/surrealist. He's hooked me up with several prints by him that have appreciated a ton. I got a few prints that were about to sellout (he doesn't do multiple runs) for anywhere from 750-1300, and I've seen them selling on ebay for about 15k each. That was just luck and happening to know someone. He basically dropped those in my lap. Plus I really love the guys work, so I'm real pleased about that whole situation. I ended up commissioning an original by him, pen and ink (I can't really touch his oil prices), but the way it went down was pretty cool. I sent him a photo of my daughters and said if these inspire you in any way, have at it and I'll take whatever you do. He ended doing an incredible drawing of an Amarylis with 2 girls kind of inside the roots of the plant--just a sick piece. If you check out his stuff on his site you can't help but see how talented he is. His line work with the pen is unreal. I paid like 5k for that and when i went down to Maui to meet him last fall his gallery manager said I could probably get like 20k for it if I wanted to sell. No way that's happening though, as it's for my kids.

I have a bunch of other stuff that I've managed to collect over the years. Some awesome Stanley Mouse stuff, and other things off in that direction. My advice, like most people will tell you is to just buy what you like. That's what I do, any appreciation is just a bonus. I have no plans to sell anything I have.
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  #7  
Old 06-08-2007, 03:16 PM
El Diablo El Diablo is offline
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Default Re: Art Collecting/Investing

nyc,

I am a big art fan, but haven't been into collecting/investing at all and don't really know anything about it. Just recently I started going to galleries more often and starting to learn about the collecting world. A couple of friends of mine are pretty avid collectors (in the $10-50k range of purchases) and they have been introducing me to some folks in the gallery community here.

Hackett Freedman is one gallery I really like. One of the current exhibits there, Guy Diehl, is the sort of artist I would like to buy earlier in his career before getting very expensive like his work is now. As has been said already, I'd be buying stuff that I really enjoy having, with the financial possibilities secondary. Seems like a lot of reading, a lot of gallery visits, and talking to lots of people about which up-and-coming artists they really think highly of is the best way to do that sort of thing.

On the professional side, the gallery owner told me a pretty crazy story. He said, partly due to Europeans and largely due to Asian collectors getting much more into the scene, art prices have been going up very steeply in the last couple of years. Especially Postwar American works. His job is basically to scan every auction listing every week. He showed me one artist (I'll have to go back to get the name) that he had been trying to sell for a while for about $150k. He ended up getting about $200k for the painting, a nice almost 100% profit. He said he was very surprised at how quickly the buyer said yes with little to no negotiation. But then two weeks later he saw it auctioned off for $600k!!!! Apparently he had missed one auction report a month or so back where a number of this artist's works had sold for 2-3x what they were going for a year earlier. Lots of random and unexplained spikes in this market, makes the stock market look easy and calm.
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  #8  
Old 06-08-2007, 03:40 PM
nyc999 nyc999 is offline
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Default Re: Art Collecting/Investing

[ QUOTE ]
Hackett Freedman is one gallery I really like.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like a cool gallery, albeit one that mainly features established artists. From your experience, what do works generally start at in a gallery like this?

I wish I could remember the name, but I really liked a gallery down near Fisherman's Wharf, right next to Ghirarelli's. It had both paintings and sculpture/ceramic art.
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  #9  
Old 06-08-2007, 03:50 PM
El Diablo El Diablo is offline
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Default Re: Art Collecting/Investing

nyc,

Thousands to tens of thousands, depending on the artist. The two current artists start at about $30k and $75k, I think. This is a relatively high-end gallery, as you mention, showing a lot of pretty well-established prominent artists. I've been to a number of Union Square (SF) galleries where there are lots of works in the hundreds to low thousands.
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  #10  
Old 06-08-2007, 05:06 PM
TiK TiK is offline
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Default Re: Art Collecting/Investing

A friend of mine does this full-time (this is in NYC btw). She goes to auctions at Tepper (an auction house) as well as flea markets and tries to get whatever she thinks looks good. Her parents own an art gallery in Buffalo, so she's got a lot of experience in the business and a pretty good eye as well.

She usually doesn't go for the bigger ticket paintings, but cheaper ones <$1,000 at flea markets and auctions and then sells them on e-bay usually for a fairly good profit. Most are never authenticated, but she lists them as "attributed to" such and such an artist, and that alone causes it to fetch a higher price.

Also, occasionally, she'll come across a painting for real cheap that ends up being worth quite a lot. It's not that lucrative and if you don't have a good eye and know what to look for, it'll be very hit-or-miss, but from what she says, if you live in a bigger city, where art is abundant, you'll find plenty that are worthwhile.
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