15/30 LHE at Artichoke Joes: Collusion or just completely horrid game?

[swope]

15/30 LHE game at Artichoke Joes. 80% of the same faces every day, all of whom know eachother real, real well, and converse largely in Cantonese.

White dude sitting in seat 4 leaves, young Asian cat moves into his seat from seat 8. He ponies up the BB, seat 7 & 9 call.

Flop is 646. BB bets, seat 7 calls, seat 9 folds. At this point seat 7 looks over at the dude in seat 4 and proclaims;

"Ohhhh very sorry, if I had known it was you I would have never called."

Turn is a T, BB checks, seat 7 checks. River is a K, check check.

Seat 4 flips 63o for a set. Seat 7 shows AQo.

FTW?

On two other occasions, seat 5 raises preflop, gets called by the BB, and checks down totally innocuous boards to table AA.

Average pot for the hour I played before they broke up the table, about 3-5BB. Number of hands that went "chop chop" without ever seeing a flop, 12.

Not the first time Ive seen the game go like this, its very frustrating. Is this type of deliberate soft playing considered outright collusion or is it simply a [censored] game featuring people who are "friends" and dont want to lock horns with people they play with 70+ hours a week...

[Bremen]

Unfortunately this sort of soft play is very common in live games. Although once you get past the low limits it tends to be rarer (and also outright collusion is more likely when you see it at higher limits, imho)

As for the hand you retold. It sounds more like the flop bettor is just that tight/predictable so that one can fold very safely :0)

Personally I'd leave. There is no action, and everyone knows each other, not a very good situation.

[Twistofsin]

A table full of regulars can sometimes play so soft it borders on implicit collusion, but they are just playing badly if they let it get to that because any outsider is likely to leave and never come back.

[I.Rowboat]

[ QUOTE ]
A table full of regulars can sometimes play so soft it borders on implicit collusion, but they are just playing badly if they let it get to that because any outsider is likely to leave and never come back.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is accurate, and why I make the drive down to Bay101, even though I work in San Bruno literally three minutes from AJ's. (Well, that and Bay101 has 40/80...)

Yes, when it's one table it's often a [censored] game, with a lot of the same faces soft playing each other, waiting for a new face to sit down. However, if there are two tables, the Must Move game is often worth playing.

[swope]

Ive decided to give up on Joes pretty much and just start making the trip to Bay 101 or even Oaks, at least on weekdays. On weekends there is enough new (drunk) blood at the 15/30 games at Joes to get some decent pots going.

Curiously, the must-move game was the one that was dead last night, the main game was rediculously hot, with solid 12-15BB average pots, but Ive definitely seen the opposite hold true on several occasions.

Btw can anyone give me an idea of what the 15/30 game at Oaks feels like compared to Joes?

[pig4bill]

Isn't Lucky Chances a helluva lot closer to San Bruno? Or does it have the same collusion problems?

[I.Rowboat]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't Lucky Chances a helluva lot closer to San Bruno? Or does it have the same collusion problems?

[/ QUOTE ]

LC's 2-3-5/$500max spread limit game has replaced their 20/40 game at the mid limits. AFAIK, they have basically stopped spreading LHE above 6/12. If you want to play mid-stakes LHE, Lucky Chances isn't an option.

For mid-limit HE in the Bay Area:

AJ's spreads 15/30
Garden City spreads 20/40
Bay101 spreads 20/40, 40/80, and 100/200
The Oaks spreads 15/30 and 30/60 on Fridays (and other days? Haven't played their in years.)
California Grand spreads 12/24

I don't know if this list is complete, but it should be a good start. FWIW, I used to play at Lucky Chances and Bay101 fairly regularly until summer 2005, then played exclusively online until January of this year, and am now playing one night a week at Bay101. Would love to play more, but live play puts a much bigger hit on my schedule, and one night a week is all I can squeeze in.